Hypocrite's oath: a draft doger's whining

[mainerjohnthomas]

The following was an excerpt from today's Vancouver Sun, my letter to the editor is below
HIPPOCRATIC OATH

Flowers has become friends with Dr. Michael Klein, a war resister who went to become head of Family Practice at Children's and Women's Hospitals in Vancouver.

Klein, 68, said that coming to Canada was the "central event" in his life and the lives of thousands of other young Americans, including his wife, Bonnie, who later became a prominent documentary filmmaker in Canada.

Klein is proud that he refused to join the U.S military as a physician. "As a physician, your primary responsibility was to return the soldier to combat. And that meant he was going to kill or be killed. I couldn't be part of that."

During a workshop break at the Our Way Home Reunion, Klein said many war resisters are ambivalent about their choice.

"Some people are at peace with their decision, but some are in great pain over what it cost them: But I'm very comfortable with the decision I made."

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=03878a3f-81d6-4e53-87ad-7ed8f2df63e3

My reply is as follows below
Sir,
      Did Dr Klein think he was respecting the Hippocratic oath, or a hypocritical oath when he decided he could not serve his country as a military physician during the Vietnam war? As one of the leading physicians at one of our finest institutions he is clearly an outstanding technical physician. The good Dr has stated that he could not aid in returning soldiers to health so they could return to combat.  His duty is to his fellow citizens, and captured enemy, to return them to health, that they may rejoin their people as productive citizen at conflicts end.  What difference could his skills have made?  How many empty sleeves would have arms, how many empty sockets would have eyes, how many filled wheel chairs would stand idle, had he chosen to aid his fellow citizens?  How many widows wept, how many children raised fatherless that this great physician should take comfort in never having aided a soldier to return to health.  He is comfortable with his choices he says, so did Herman Goering, and I don't doubt that neither of them can understand the cost of their comfort.
John T Mainer
Maple Ridge BC

     And no, before anyone asks, I do not equate the actions of the good doctor with Herman Goering, simply that they share a similar disregard at the price of that other people must pay that they may be comfortable with their decisions.

    If anyone would like to share their thoughts with the author or editor, their addresses are as follows:
Author dward@png.canwest.com
Editor sunletters@png.canwest.com

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I thought US involvement in  the Vietnam War ended by and large in 1972 - this doctor got his orders in 1973. The war itself ended in 1975, after Vietnamization".

The article further stated:

In the end, Holland's second appointment with the draft board was put off because then-U.S. President Richard Nixon ended the draft. But the idea of Canada remained in Holland's head and that summer of 1973 he headed to British Columbia for a vacation and wound up staying.

So what is it that he evaded, exactly? The article seems unclear.

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

That was Jim Holland who decided that a good snowfall was sign enough that he should run for the border, and not report to the draft office.  I think the idea of service is so anathema to all of these cowards, that none of their excuses hold up to close, or even casual scrutiny.  There have been brave men of conscience who could not justify taking up arms against their fellow man, who instead accepted the risks of their fellow soldiers to serve in support roles to aid their fellow citizens, even if their conscience could not permit them to kill.  These people I would not scorn.  These draft dodgers who try to paint a coat of false virtue over the stinking truth of their cowardice may as well attempt to cover cow dung with gold leaf, you may make it shine, but you can never hide the stink.

 

[GO!!!]

So what is it that he evaded, exactly? The article seems unclear.

If he got his orders in 1973, he may have been trying to avoid his mandatory service after Uncle Sam had paid for school. That's about what I would expect from a man of his moral fibre.

 

[GAP]

A coward is a coward is a coward. Any of them trying to justify it is a truly endless task.  They needn't  bother. We wrote them off, kinda like you scrape you shoe when you step in a cowpie....just another piece of SHITE  

 

[big bad john]

Tell me, so I understand.  I'm a little slow on some things.  Why did you let them in here, in the first place?  Why did you let them stay?

 

[Michael Dorosh]

But if both the war and the draft were over, how does this make him a coward?  ???

GO!!! makes a good point about evading compulsory service, but the article says the draft ended by 1973 - compulsory service due to educational benefits has nothing to do with the draft, does it?  ???

 

[Nemo888]

Personally if someone doesn’t want to join the Army I don’t want him in the Army. The draft for Vietnam could easily be seen as immoral. He still made a considerable contribution to society. I have tolerance for those with ideas different from mine because I know I am not always right. Some people won’t make good soldiers. Why force them unless your country is in danger? Where does all this vitriol come from?

 

[GO!!!]

Personally if someone doesn’t want to join the Army I don’t want him in the Army. The draft for Vietnam could easily be seen as immoral. He still made a considerable contribution to society. I have tolerance for those with ideas different from mine because I know I am not always right. Some people won’t make good soldiers. Why force them unless your country is in danger? Where does all this vitriol come from?

Me first!

Because;

1. He abandoned his society when he was asked to make a tangible contribution.

2. He was not a soldier - he could have served as a doctor stateside.

3.The country was determined to have been in danger by elected officials - not some tin pot dictator.

4. People who opposed the war had the option of concientious objector status - he chose to run. This guy did'nt even have the parts to stand up and be counted as opposing the war - he just ran.

5. Now he's gloating that he ducked out of a war his age cohort had to fight.

Soldiers generally consider themselves a patriotic and principled bunch, and if called upon, even as a civilian, it is time, regardless of the circumstances. The fact that this coward found safe harbour here irks me as well, and then having a party, well, salt in the wound.

I do my part, it is not always fun, and I don't always agree with it, but that is what my vote is for.

 

[mainerjohnthomas]

Personally if someone doesn’t want to join the Army I don’t want him in the Army. The draft for Vietnam could easily be seen as immoral. He still made a considerable contribution to society. I have tolerance for those with ideas different from mine because I know I am not always right. Some people won’t make good soldiers. Why force them unless your country is in danger? Where does all this vitriol come from?

  He made considerable contribution to OUR society.  He abandoned the nation of his birth, rather than making a contribution to HIS OWN  society.  Specifically, he abandoned the call to serve those brave men who were being asked to risk life and limb fighting for that society.  He could have served them as well in a State side hospital helping them recover from the terrible wounds that war leaves behind.  Instead, he chose to leave them behind, and sit smugly in Canada and gloat about how noble he was not to have helped save soldiers.  As a Canadian soldier, I don't know wether to feel shame that I actually risked my life to defend scum like this, or gratitude that this coward is not actually ours by birth.  He is a physician of exceptional skill, how many lives would have been saved, or changed forever had he chosen to do his duty?  He was not asked to fight, he was asked to care for the wounded; a task so sacred, that the battlefield symbols for medics, from the cadecus to the cross or crescent, have always been holy symbols.

 

[FastEddy]

   He made considerable contribution to OUR society.  He abandoned the nation of his birth, rather than making a contribution to HIS OWN  society.  Specifically, he abandoned the call to serve those brave men who were being asked to risk life and limb fighting for that society.  He could have served them as well in a State side hospital helping them recover from the terrible wounds that war leaves behind.  Instead, he chose to leave them behind, and sit smugly in Canada and gloat about how noble he was not to have helped save soldiers.  As a Canadian soldier, I don't know wether to feel shame that I actually risked my life to defend scum like this, or gratitude that this coward is not actually ours by birth.  He is a physician of exceptional skill, how many lives would have been saved, or changed forever had he chosen to do his duty?  He was not asked to fight, he was asked to care for the wounded; a task so sacred, that the battlefield symbols for medics, from the cadecus to the cross or crescent, have always been holy symbols.

Well said ! I fully agree.

Also I found what the good Doctor said about his high principles about treating the wounded so they could be returned to the Line, just so much crap. Just about all of wounds he would have treated would have been Stateside Tickets. Not to mention the lives he might have saved so they could have gone State Side.

Now we heap Laurels on him. I'd like to meet him in a Bar.

 

[paracowboy]

he's a coward. If he had stayed in place, refused to deploy, and faced the consequences of his actions, I'd be the first to applaud him (I wouldn't understand, but I would applaud his strength of convictions). There were a number of actions available to him, legally, that would have allowed him to serve his nation, the nation that protected and educated him for his entire life to that point, and still not jeopardize his "convictions" (if he'd truly had any). Instead, he chose to flee.

He's a coward, and his actions (and worse his flapping, sewage-spilling mouth) have shamed him, the US servicemen/women who did their part, and us, the nation that accepted this treasonous cur.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Whenever I hear of these deserters, I think of  U.S. Army Specialist Michael New who back in 1995 was told his unit was deplyed to Macedonia under the U.N. and he would have to wear an UN beret and insignia. He refused to do so, because he thought it violated his military oath in that he would be serving under a “foreign power.” Consequently, he was  court-martialed and kicked-out of the military. Now, for many of us in the Canadian military who have worn the UN beret on numerous occasions, this may sound a little ridiculous, but at least New believed in what he thought was right and took his lumps; no running off to Canada for him! That’s why I’m disgusted by these guys who come running up here to Canada when things get tough. If they think the war is wrong or whatever they should stand and take it like a man rather than running here to Canada.

 

[Remius]

Hmn,

Interesting points on either side.  Let me throw this one out to you guys.

I know someone who was conscripted during the 1st Gulf War.  He was sent to fight.  2 times he tried to desert because he didn't believe in what he was fighting for or for who.  Each time he was brought back to the front.  Now, all he could think about was getting his sorry ass out of the fighting because there was a strong chance he would never see his family again. The third time he escaped and found his way to Canada.  Later once he had citizenship he joined the CF.

Now, should he have done his patriotic duty and stayed? Or should he have just refused alltogether and face the consequences?  The difficulty in applying those values is that he was conscripted as an Iraqi soldier.  The third time he escaped he was captured somewhere in Syria where he was detained for a while.  Eventually he came to Canada where he is now serving in the CF.

Now, the US (even during the Vietnam era) is no Iraq.  And maybe the good doctor was a coward.  Maybe not.

I guess it's a matter of perspective.  I wasn't there at the time to pass judgement on the man.  So passing judgement now is a little unfair since I don't have all the facts. 

We in the CF have all chosen to do what we do.  We were not forced into it.  Some do it for money and some do it out of a sense patriotism and some do it because it can be pretty cool at times.  Whatever the reason.  The fact is that we had a choice to serve.  There are millions of Canadians that choose not to serve for a variety of reasons.  Any doctor could choose to serve (we have a critical shortage) but chose not to.  Are they cowards?

As for the Doctor in question.  I am of two views.  I am somewhat bitter that probably someone with a better sense of patriotism stepped up in his place during one his country's most difficult times.  But at the same time I really can't judge the man since I wasn't there.  And that he has overall, made a contribution that bettered our society.

A touchy, emotional issue for sure.

Again, it's a matter of perspective.  I really hope we never reach a point where we will have to force people to join the CF.  It'll be an ugly mess.  Some people answering the call, others running for the hills or finding convieniant excuses to bow out. 

 

[paracowboy]

comparing Iraq under Hussein to the US under anyone to date is quite the reach.

 

[GAP]

Would he be as acceptable as say, A British soldier, A French, A German....these are all volunteer Armed Forces and elected governments?

I see your point, and it's a valid one to a point. The American Forces allow someone to become Conscientious Objector, if they chose to not deploy to a combat zone. So there is no excuse to drag their sorry tails up here.

 

[Remius]

comparing Iraq under Hussein to the US under anyone to date is quite the reach.

No argument there.  In fact, comparing a conscript army of Iraq to the US is a stretch as well.  The comparison was more towards the individuals than the countries.  Each one was asked/told to fight.  Each one had their reasons not to.  Each one ended up in Canada.

Howvever the reasons were different, the situations were different.  Granted.

But I'm sure there are many doctors and engineers in Iraq that are just as bitter about their colleagues leaving their country(presumably for a better life) behind when it needs them most.

Again, it's a matter of perspective.  Right or wrong.

Now a soldier who knowwingly joins and then decides he can't do it when the going gets tough is another story.  In Canada (and I assume most western countries) people generally know what they are doing and what they are getting into. They aren't forced into it.

 

[paracowboy]

but, as pointed out a few times already, the US Army, even when still using the draft, had places to accomodate conciensious observers, so this assclown's argument holds no water. He's a punk.

 

[The_Falcon]

oops, that'll learn me, mea culpa.

 

[Remius]

I am calling BS, conscripted/drafted during the 1st Gulf War  : Never happened, people were afraid it might but it didn't. So either your friend is doing a little creative story telling or you are.  My thoughts, your buddy joined voluntary prior to the war for whatever reason (but I guessing it is monetarily related), got spooked at thought of actually fullfilling his end of the bargain, and then bolted.

Please read the whole post before you call it BS.  He was conscripted with the Iraqi army.

Cheers.