I damaged DND vehicle, need advice

[fraserdw]

I was doing 130 in 110 in my vehicle and did a "WTF" when he passed me as if I was standing still.  So I caught up and paced.  My speedo said on my 2011 car said 170.  Ohhh and on the phone too!

 

[aesop081]

I was doing 130 in 110

Then maybe you should report yourself as well. If not, STFU.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I was doing 130 in 110 in my vehicle and did a "WTF" when he passed me as if I was standing still.  So I caught up and paced.  My speedo said on my 2011 car said 170.  Ohhh and on the phone too!

Broke the law also, did you? :

I drive a gov't veh daily. My boss gets reports sometimes about myself and others.

Bottom line, unless I got a ticket or got clocked on radar and reported by the police, it's all hearsay. Nothing he can do about it.

Disgruntled civies and the like make false claims about gov't vehicles all the time and we don't act on complaints from those that knowingly break the law and admit it.

They just make an alleged dangerous situation even more dangerous by their vigilante action.


edit-spelling

 

[Jarnhamar]

Driving back from Picton I was turning onto highway 2 and seen a truck coming up the road. He was still pretty far away so I made the turn. Turns out he was flying. Came right up on my ass and had to slow down but proceeded to ride my ass for a while.
My usual SOP is to punch the breaks and make tail gaters panic but I had my kid with me so I just maintained the speed limit and carried on.

Cool guy decides to give me the finger while passing me up hill around a blind turn, double line area of the road. To make it even better he had two beautiful golden retrievers tied up in the box of his truck, veteran plates and an arid cadpat ribbon sticker.  Good way to paint the CF in a positive light.

 

[missing1]

" :tsktsk: My usual SOP is to punch the breaks and make tail gaters panic"

Just what everyone on the road needs

 

[Neolithium]

I just drive the speed limit.  Someone wants to get into a collision I refuse to let it be my fault.  I've been temped many a time to slam on the brakes, but in the end I find it not worth it.

 

[mariomike]

" :tsktsk: My usual SOP is to punch the breaks and make tail gaters panic"

Just what everyone on the road needs

"Don't tailgate! Don't ever tailgate!  Do you know how much space is needed to stop a car traveling at 35 miles per hour? Six car lengths!":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEH9Zwo8JEM

 

[MeatheadMick]

(snip)
In retrospect, , the MSE section, while they did conduct the investigation on the damage, despite their ranting, had no authority to charge me, or collect any money, they can make all the recommendations they like in their report, but the authority to charge and fine lies with the CO.

^ exactly don't let the threat scare you... usually it's all it is... however if the OP really was negligent, it's a different story. Obviously without hearing any of the circumstances it's not possible to tell though.

I have driven that route several times and in similarly conditions, the only times I can recall being told authorized routes is when I was part of a convoy and it was in the road move orders. Other than that I was just given contact numbers and told "don't speed".

That being said I am not an MSE Op nor have I ever been part of Battalion Transport so I don't know all the rules and regulations.

Same deal. If I've been tasked with a driving task, and it's not part of a packet, generally you have some common sense to play with in regards to route.

Broke the law also, did you? :

I drive a gov't veh daily. My boss gets reports sometimes about myself and others.
(snip)

Disgruntled civies and the like make false claims about gov't vehicles all the time and we don't act on complaints from those that knowingly break the law and admit it.
(snip)

Last time I was a guardhouse MP this was always a huge problem. "MP's not wearing berets in vehicles, MP's speeding, MP's car is dirty, MP's are distracting drivers while doing speed traps" You name it... we got it...

*Edited for layout

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Last time I was a guardhouse MP this was always a huge problem. "MP's not wearing berets in vehicles, MP's speeding, MP's car is dirty, MP's are distracting drivers while doing speed traps" You name it... we got it...

I'm curious.  What did you do with those complaints - especially given the fact that it appears that there were many of them?

 

[MeatheadMick]

(snip)
Lerch, same thing happened to me kind of. Had a Captain tell me I wasn't allowed taking a certain road in a city with the MSVS because it wasn't a MSR and if the MPs found out (despite being 100kms away) I would be charged and have my 404s taken away.  Of course the next day he takes the same road, I asked him about it not being an MSR and he said it's okay because he just needed to stop by the bank  :

Also the MP's wouldn't charge you... they'd investigate it, (if a complaint came in and it was in regard to contravening the CSD) and recommend charges to the unit CoC if applicable.

I'm curious.  What did you do with those complaints - especially given the fact that it appears that there were many of them?

Well a lot of them were deemed frivolous complaints... mostly those regarding head-dress and dirty cars. The chain of command usually gave us shit anyway (especially for speeding), and would send a nastygram thru the dist. list. If it was a serious complaint the unit or the MP Complaints Commission would start an investigation, both of which can have dire consequences.  Since we're the ones that are enforcing the laws, if an MP is obviously going against the laws, it throws their credibility out the window. Everyone in the CF is bound by Criminal Code, and the Code of Service Discipline. MP's are also held to MP Code of Conduct and the outdated MPPTP's, which can essentially throw a huge sh*t fit into one's career if they're a knob.

There are definitely dickhead MP's out there, but because we can be viewed as the bad guys, there's a lot of CYA involved... including the CoC when a complaint is made. Even if it is found to be frivelous in nature, the offending MP will get there PP slapped in one way or the other.

 

[FJAG]

sumyungi

Let me start by telling you that before retiring I was a legal officer with the Office of the JAG.

There's some good advice for you in the material posted earlier as well as a good bit of misconception.

Let me summarize things for you.

1.  DND has no insurance. It's part of the government and is self insured. If a vehicle is lost or damaged the government absorbs the cost of that loss UNLESS someone else is at fault against whom the government can bring a claim by the crown.

2.  Where under QR&O 38.01(1) a CF member wilfully or negligently causes loss or damage to public property then the member is liable to reimburse the crown for that loss etc.

3.  QR&O 38.01 lays out the processes by which administrative recovery takes place. (see also DAOD 7004-1)

The point is that there is a legal process within DND that springs into gear when your kind of incident occurs. A unit DND 424 MSE Accident Report will be done as a minimum. A Summary Investigation or Board of Inquiry and an MP investigation may also be involved depending on the circumstances.

Claims of this magnitude will probably go through the local AJAG office and up to the Office of the Director, Claims and Civil Litigation who may or may not involve the Underwriters Adjustment Bureau to also investigate the circumstances of the accident  (especially if third party vehicle damage or injuries are involved).

All these folks work on legal principles and will look at all the circumstances of the case. In the event that this was a traffic "accident" you may find that even though responsible for the accident, it may be that you won't be held fully or even partially financially liable. However if they determine that your actions were negligent in the legal sense then they may seek recovery of some or all the costs involved.

I don't doubt that these proceedings may be confusing to you and I also know they don't resolve themselves overnight.

Sitting where I am I can't tell how far into the process you are and whether what you are hearing is rumour or in fact a completed investigation. All I can tell you is the matter could very well be quite serious and you should consider getting some form of legal advice.

 

[Haggis]

Let me start by telling you that before retiring I was a legal officer with the Office of the JAG.

Where were you three pages ago???  ;D

 

[a_majoor]

The only time I have ever heard of an "authorized route" was during a road move, where you have to follow the route card for traffic control purposes (and so the wrecker knows where to come get you if needed). Diverting from a known route due to weather or other circumstances beyond your control should not be an issue unless you need recovery (in which case you better know where you are, otherwise they can't come get you), but taking frivolous side routes just adds time, burns fuel and really just makes the trip longer and more of a pain (especially in SMP vehicles).

As for the person who started the thread, I am glad they are getting good advice, but I am still burned by the "entitled" attitude of the poster. Grow a pair; if you were at fault then there are consequences. This applies to everything in your life, the sooner you realize this and act accordingly the better for you and everyone else.

 

[The_Falcon]

The only time I have ever heard of an "authorized route" was during a road move, where you have to follow the route card for traffic control purposes (and so the wrecker knows where to come get you if needed). Diverting from a known route due to weather or other circumstances beyond your control should not be an issue unless you need recovery (in which case you better know where you are, otherwise they can't come get you), but taking frivolous side routes just adds time, burns fuel and really just makes the trip longer and more of a pain (especially in SMP vehicles).

As for the person who started the thread, I am glad they are getting good advice, but I am still burned by the "entitled" attitude of the poster. Grow a pair; if you were at fault then there are consequences. This applies to everything in your life, the sooner you realize this and act accordingly the better for you and everyone else.

When transporting weapons (especially) in bulk, you are "supposed" to follow a designated route as well. 

 

[armyvern]

When transporting weapons (especially) in bulk, you are "supposed" to follow a designated route as well.

True that.

 

[Timmy!]

It hard for me to say right  now. But I do work in MSE Safety. Personally don't like it. But it's part of my trade. So if you go any questions in this field. I can try to help via PM.


*runs away*


The MP above me is right about complaints and looking into them. They are always knocking at my door for information.

As the cost capture part. TN does has a fund for damages. But TN was accepting all the damages for a long time. Now they are cost capturing back to the unit or the individuals. It is not right for TN to be coughing up the funds for something you did wrong. Yes we taught you, and gave you a DND 404. But you are the one whom is behind the wheel. Think of it as a member having an ND on a range. Simple charge. I will admit, some folks in the MSE Safety world do get a little horny when they see damages. It is part of their job. Just own up to what you did.