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"I have a dream" fulfilled

Alright Ape, for you, I'll bite,

Well, first off - this is the political forum.  .....as a future leader of men[maybe] you should pay more attention to detail, this was in current affairs and news but got switched to "political"...little things matter in front of the troopies, oh yea, you haven't been there yet.

Secondly, for experience with the US, see Sigpig's post (above). .......I take everything Sigpig has to say with a large grain of salt, every post he makes is US bashing and yet he continues to live in the nice Florida weather, for more than 6 years? Can you say hypocrite?...and as for his racism post maybe he needs to fly up to one of our larger cities and actually pay attention to the street a little, its just as bad.

Thirdly, regarding the fallacy of hasty generalization (read: generalizing based on personal experience), see: http://www.santarosa.edu/~dpeterso/permanenthtml/propaganda/prop_anecdotal.htm

........so you have no problem insinuating that Ms. Rice is just a token who followed another token?...thats pathetic.


Perhaps you'd like to point out where I blamed America for everything? Or maybe you wanted to quote what you seem to believe is a witty or insightful comment you made at some point in the past. Well, you've done it. Do you feel better now?

...yes I do, but I knew your ilk wouldn't like it as it catches ya right between the eyes, I'm sure.
..and as for the blame thing, here are your posts, reread them and count,

http://army.ca/forums/members/5214;sa=showPosts

and lastly, since you brought up "witty and insightful" comments, you don't seem to have a problem throwing what you think is one out,...
                                          I mean c'mon - it's the US.

..oh, you meant " I mean c'mon - it's the US." in a good way?...... ::)
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
I take everything Sigpig has to say with a large grain of salt, every post he makes is US bashing and yet he continues to live in the nice Florida weather, for more than 6 years? Can you say hypocrite?...and as for his racism post maybe he needs to fly up to one of our larger cities and actually pay attention to the street a little, its just as bad.

I didn't know that I was the only poster here who has a particular bias or view of things. I think I've been pretty up front about my political leanings every chance I get.

As far as US bashing, guilty. I've tried to let Canadians on this site know about my experiences and observations after living in the US for six years. It is quite different than reading about things on the news. And some on this site seem to look at the US through rose coloured glasses because the American people support a large military and have different views on social issues. My glasses are a bit darker.

Hypocrite? Any more than the members of this site who continue to bash the majority of Canadians who don't want a large military and support the existing social policies? If Canada is such a socialist, pacifist hell hole then get out!! 

I haven't been to a large Canadian city in a while so I don't know about their streets. I have always been quite well read when it comes to the news and current events and racism doesn't appear to be anywhere near the issue in Canada that it is here. I'm not talking about the streets of large cities here, I'm talking about my suburban neighbourhood and many other places.

And it was down to 55F when I went to get the paper this morning. Oh, the horror. That's too damn cold. So much for nice Florida weather. Now that we've finally got our green cards - tomorrow actually, I might never get the wife out of here. She hates the cold - wimpiest Canadian you ever saw  ;D

So I guess I'll stay here, if that's all right with you, and continue to bring a large salt lick to my desk whenever I log in to check out the site.
 
It is interesting, if somewhat sad, to see that there seems to be no consideration of Dr Rice's substantial qualifications to do the job, just nattering about what we "think" the Republicans or American people think and feel.

As for thinking about the Republicans, they have demonstrated a high degree of comfort in exploring new territory. Tax reform, social security reform, medicare/medicade reform (in favor of Health Savings Accounts) and Tort reform have always been considered topics which would destroy any candidate or party which advocated them, President Bush campaigned on them as his domestic platform and won. OIF, pre-emption and "tiger teaming" with coallitions of the willing for specific tasks have been foreign policy planks which, despite the howls of outrage, have demonstrated results. Perhaps the last Republican administration which has made so many sweeping changes was the Lincoln administration, which was characterised than as the "Radical Republicans".

As for the here and now, if Dr Rice is not suitable because of "attitudes" or "beliefs" amongst the voters, please name another candidate (Democratic or Republican) who is not a career politician and can boast of an equally impressive resume?
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Alright Ape, for you, I'll bite,

Well, first off - this is the political forum.   .....as a future leader of men[maybe] you should pay more attention to detail, this was in current affairs and news but got switched to "political"...little things matter in front of the troopies, oh yea, you haven't been there yet.

I guess it depends on when the thread was moved from CA. Before my post and you're wrong, after my post and I'm wrong. Regardless, I don't see it as having a great deal of importance for command potential.

Secondly, for experience with the US, see Sigpig's post (above). .......I take everything Sigpig has to say with a large grain of salt, every post he makes is US bashing and yet he continues to live in the nice Florida weather, for more than 6 years? Can you say hypocrite?...and as for his racism post maybe he needs to fly up to one of our larger cities and actually pay attention to the street a little, its just as bad.

Let me get this straight - you value irrelevant personal experience (can't generalize from it, can you?) in an argument on electoral politics, then dismiss that personal experience when it doesn't fit your view of things? You valued the other guy's experience because it fit what you wanted to believe but since Sigpig's doesn't, you dismiss him as a US basher. Little things matter, right? Like consistency?

Thirdly, regarding the fallacy of hasty generalization (read: generalizing based on personal experience), see: http://www.santarosa.edu/~dpeterso/permanenthtml/propaganda/prop_anecdotal.htm

........so you have no problem insinuating that Ms. Rice is just a token who followed another token?...thats pathetic.

I didn't say she was a token, I said she was an exception to the trend, outside the bell curve - which she is. Take that how you want to; as it's a reflection of fact, I don't particularly care what you deem it to be.

Perhaps you'd like to point out where I blamed America for everything? Or maybe you wanted to quote what you seem to believe is a witty or insightful comment you made at some point in the past. Well, you've done it. Do you feel better now?

...yes I do, but I knew your ilk wouldn't like it as it catches ya right between the eyes, I'm sure.
..and as for the blame thing, here are your posts, reread them and count,

http://army.ca/forums/members/5214;sa=showPosts

I didn't like or not like it - it doesn't apply and thus I can't comment on its accuracy or inaccuracy.

I'm concerned by your classification of anything critical of the US as "bashing", though, since it really detracts from the discussion.

If you'd read the posts you advise me to (and I did), you'd find I addressed the issue of "US bashing" and Ameriphilia by taking neither side and pointing out both ignore important points supportive and critical of the US. I'm still waiting for you to point to where I blamed the US for everything.

and lastly, since you brought up "witty and insightful" comments, you don't seem to have a problem throwing what you think is one out,...
                                          I mean c'mon - it's the US.

..oh, you meant " I mean c'mon - it's the US." in a good way?...... ::)

No, it was meant to portray the absurdity of such a notion. Like saying "I mean c'mon - it's Quebec" in response to a proposal that a Texan could be premier.

a_majoor said:
As for the here and now, if Dr Rice is not suitable because of "attitudes" or "beliefs" amongst the voters, please name another candidate (Democratic or Republican) who is not a career politician and can boast of an equally impressive resume?

I think we haven't discussed Rice's qualifications because anyone who's familiar with them knows they're more than sufficient. I don't like Rice's politics and I hope she's never elected but I think she's more than qualified for the presidency.

As for another candidate filling the criteria you specified, I think Colin Powell would make a good president, assuming you could get him elected.
 
Our little arguement is taken this off-topic but I just want to clarify something.
QUOTE,
Let me get this straight - you value irrelevant personal experience (can't generalize from it, can you?) in an argument on electoral politics, then dismiss that personal experience when it doesn't fit your view of things? You valued the other guy's experience because it fit what you wanted to believe but since Sigpig's doesn't, you dismiss him as a US basher. Little things matter, right? Like consistency?

...the difference being is I went through Clasper's posts and found out his views go both ways on the US, ,..now go through SigPigs posts and find ONE good thing[besides the weather] that he has to say.

Now if post after post all I did was insult , oh say,.....OCDT's, I believe it wouldn't take long before you ran with my grain of salt also.
 
After going back through my posts I guess you are right about my not saying anything positive about the US. Of course, considering I've only talked about Bush on the Micheal Moore thread and the health care system, so what? I don't like Bush and I don't like the US healthcare system. I do like the US government system of checks and balances that prevents the dictatorship of the PM and cabinet that can happen in a Canadian majority government. I do like paying less payroll taxes and the highway system is much better down here. But I haven't seen any threads about those topics here.

I realized his is the second time you've asked why I'm living in the US. Well, it's none of your business. My family and I will live wherever we please. And as long as I live in a democracy I'll criticize the government of the day and any of their policies I feel like.

What was this topic about before people started telling me where I should and shouldn't be living?
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Our little arguement is taken this off-topic but I just want to clarify something.
QUOTE,
Let me get this straight - you value irrelevant personal experience (can't generalize from it, can you?) in an argument on electoral politics, then dismiss that personal experience when it doesn't fit your view of things? You valued the other guy's experience because it fit what you wanted to believe but since Sigpig's doesn't, you dismiss him as a US basher. Little things matter, right? Like consistency?

...the difference being is I went through Clasper's posts and found out his views go both ways on the US, ,..now go through SigPigs posts and find ONE good thing[besides the weather] that he has to say.

Now if post after post all I did was insult , oh say,.....OCDT's, I believe it wouldn't take long before you ran with my grain of salt also.

Point clarified... back to the discussion.
 
ANN ALTHOUSE wants to see Russ Feingold run against Condi Rice in 2008.

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/02/i-think-you-ought-to-run-for-president.html

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2005/02/my-other-08-presidential-pick.html

I don't really care where you live or why (although I will freely admit I have been giving serious consideration to moving to the US in my post military existence since it seems to mesh with some developing plans of my own...), but I am interested in how you would react to seeing Dr Rice on the ballot, or as President. For that matter, I am also interested to hear from our American members who else is considered to be a strong contender for 2008?
 
A sensible analysis of the potential weakness of Dr Rice as a presidential candidate:

Beware the Condi bandwagon
February 15th, 2005

I am as pleased as anyone with Condoleezza Rice's initial performance as Secretary of State.  She's a smart, articulate, passionate defender of America and George W. Bush's foreign policy vision.  But all the excited talk about â Å“Condi for Presidentâ ? is wildly premature, and even dangerous to the conservative cause.  For all her virtues and strengths, and she has many, Rice simply is not presidential material.  This is not a criticism.  Plenty of highly accomplished, successful people are not made out to be President.  Rice is an outstanding cabinet official and a shining star in the Republican firmament.  But she lacks the background and experience to be a credible, let alone winning, candidate for the White House in 2008.  Critically, between now and then, Republicans need to find someone to fill Dubya's big shoes.  The time and energy spent daydreaming about a Condi candidacy would be better spent identifying viable national candidates and building up their political capital for the hard fight to come against Hillary, Kerry, and the Democrats.

No one starts his (or her) career in elected politics by running for the White House.  The idea is absurd.  (Are you listening Dick Morris?)  The liberal media and the mainstream public alike would reject, indeed ridicule, anyone ignorant â “ and arrogant â “ enough to believe that they could â Å“start at the topâ ? like this.  True, Dwight D. Eisenhower never ran for political office before being elected President.  But Ike won World War Two!  With all due respect, Condi is no Ike.  (This is not necessarily a bad thing, of course, but it means Rice has no chance of becoming President in 2008.)  Even Hillary, who has presidential ambitions of her own, realized that she had to start by winning a seat in the U.S. Senate.  If Condi wants to be a serious candidate for the White House someday, she needs to pursue a similar course.

I would not recommend that she run for the Senate, however.  The American President is the chief executive officer of the nation, not the chief legislative officer.  He has advisors for that.  Not surprisingly, successful presidential candidates overwhelmingly come from an executive, not legislative, background.  Since 1900, almost every elected President previously served as governor or Vice-President (or President via succession):  McKinley (governor of Ohio), Teddy Roosevelt (governor of New York and Vice-President/President), Wilson (governor of New Jersey), Coolidge (governor of Massachusetts and Vice-President/President), FDR (governor of New York), Truman (Vice-President), Johnson (Vice-President/President), Nixon (Vice-President), Carter (governor of Georgia), Reagan (governor of California), George H.W. Bush (Vice-President), Clinton (governor of Arkansas), and George W. Bush (governor of Texas).  In addition, Taft (Secretary of War/governor of the Philippines), Hoover (Secretary of Commerce/head of European relief efforts during World War One), and Eisenhower (Supreme Allied Commander, Europe, during World War Two) all had strong executive-level credentials.  Only two elected Presidents since 1900, Harding and Kennedy, made their names as Senators, and Kennedy is another exceptional case.  (Trust me, Hillary won't be the third, but that's another article.)

Rice plainly lacks these credentials.  Her academic and policy wonk backgrounds, however distinguished they may be, are not the stuff of Presidents.  They might impress the chattering classes, but they do not mean much to average Americans who expect their President to be a â Å“take chargeâ ? CEO-type, who can be trusted to manage and control the awesome machinery of the federal government.  Rice has never even managed a business or led a major organization, let alone exercised executive branch authority at any level of government. Her role as Secretary of State is her first significant political position.  Give her time to prove herself in this job, and perhaps win election to statewide office somewhere, before even thinking about â Å“draftingâ ? her for the biggest job of all in 2008, or beyond.

If Rice were to run for President, her lack of executive-level credentials would not be her only weakness.  Politically, she has no recognizable base of support.  Although Dick Morris predicts she would garner support from African-Americans, Hispanics, and single white women (in addition to traditional Republican voters), this is nothing but crude identity politics masquerading as political analysis. What state, what region, what economic or cultural groups does she represent?  The faculty of Stanford University, the members of the National Security Council, and the Board of Directors of various Fortune 500 companies, while useful friends to have, do not make up a winning electoral coalition.  Tip O'Neill famously once said that â Å“all politics is local.â ?  While this may be an overstatement, it nevertheless highlights a key feature of American politics:  successful politicians build their constituencies from the ground up.  What is Rice's constituency?  Born and raised in Alabama, educated in Colorado, living for many years in northern California (hardly a Republican stronghold), and now working in Washington, D.C., she is a peripatetic modern professional.  This may have been good for her career, but it is terrible for politics.

Another of Rice's political weaknesses is her complete lack of domestic policy experience.  Although she is a Cold War scholar and defense policy expert, the closest Rice has come to working on domestic policy issues is serving on the Board of a Bay-area educational foundation and as Vice-President of her local chapter of the Boys and Girls Club of America.  While these are admirable endeavors, they are hardly sufficient for someone who wants to be President of the United States.  Even after 9/11, domestic policy issues â “ including Social Security, health care, taxes, crime, education, tort reform, and welfare â “ remain the centerpiece of presidential politics.  As governor of Texas, President Bush gained experience and credibility in these areas, something Rice sorely lacks.  Rice needs to establish her own domestic policy bona fides, before she will be in a position to contend for the White House.       

Finally, one cannot ignore the demographic factors that would play into a Rice candidacy.  First, while I do not believe that Rice's being black is a negative, neither is it a plus.  I do not doubt that there are voters who would not vote for her simply because of her race, but I am convinced their number is too small to make any difference electorally.  Nor is there any reason to believe that these voters are more likely to be Republicans than Democrats or to reside in â Å“swingâ ? states versus solidly red or blue states.  So whatever political effect such racism would have is likely to be negligible.  At the same time, there will be voters who will be energized by the prospect of electing a black President and â Å“sending a messageâ ? that racism has been relegated to the dustbin of American history.  (Much of the excitement over the prospect of a Colin Powell candidacy in 1996, which I shared, came from these sorts of feelings.)  Although such sentiments are honorable, they are unlikely to motivate many Republican voters, who will refuse to play â Å“diversityâ ? games with the Presidency of the United States, or persuade many Democrats â “ who otherwise revel in diversity games â “ to vote for a conservative presidential candidate.

Rice's being a woman is a different issue, however.  Whether we like it or not, most Americans â “ men and women â “ are not accustomed to having women in positions of significant authority outside the family.  Moreover, I think it is safe to say that many Americans â “ men and women â “ view women CEOs, women generals, and women political leaders through a rather skeptical lens.  Especially women generals.  Do many people outside of NOW take them seriously, as leaders of men who go into battle to kill the enemy?  I doubt it.  Well, the President is commander-in-chief of the most powerful military in world history, one that is engaged in deadly hostilities, and deadly serious stand-offs, across the entire globe.  Fair or not, the American people will not easily be persuaded to put a woman in this position.  Consequently, any woman presidential candidate, including Rice, will be fighting an uphill battle to overcome this inherently pro-male bias in the nature of the Presidency.  This is not an impossible task.  Indira Gandhi, Golda Meier, and Margaret Thatcher all led their countries in wartime.  But these three women rose to power in parliamentary systems, which have a different political dynamic than our constitutional system, making it easier for women to assume leadership positions. Nevertheless, I expect this threshold to be crossed here in my lifetime.  But it will require a female candidate who has much more high-level political and business experience than Rice.

The 2008 presidential election will present Republicans with a potentially historic opportunity to strengthen their support across the country and solidify their status as the majority party in America.  The choice of candidate to succeed George W. Bush will be critical to this goal.  A weak candidate (a la Bob Dole) could allow the Democrats to retake the White House and make inroads in Congress.  I do not know who the right Republican candidate will be.  Many have suggested Jeb Bush.  Others have promoted Rudy Giuliani or John McCain.  Still others have plumped for Ken Blackwell, Ohio's black Secretary of State who probably will be elected that state's governor.  Frankly, I do not think we will know who the viable candidates are until after the 2006 midterm elections. A lot can happen between now and then.  But I do know that 2008 is not the time for Condoleezza Rice.  Republicans should stop fantasizing about Rice and start thinking seriously about the next Republican President.

Steven M. Warshawsky frequently comments on politics and current affairs from a conservative perspective.  He can be reached at smwarshawsky@hotmail.com.


Steven M. Warshawsky
 
2008 is a long way off but if its a Hillary vs Condi matchup it may be a tossup. I think Condi could win.
 
I have no doubt that Dr Rice is a far more impressive candidate than Sen Clinton; but as the article points out, there are areas of deficiency which Dr Rice would need to correct to succeed on the political level.

 
Only two elected Presidents since 1900, Harding and Kennedy, made their names as Senators, and Kennedy is another exceptional case.

Then why do both parties keep putting these candidates out there (Kerry, Dole, and Mondale in the last 20 years)?

Another interpretation of this thread's title: Does Barack Obama save his party from left-wing lunacy and return the Democrats to an inclusive party of the center?  For many of the reasons mentioned in Majoor's article, Obama has a much better chance of being on the ticket in 2008 than Rice does.
 
Born and raised in Alabama, educated in Colorado, living for many years in northern California (hardly a Republican stronghold), and now working in Washington, D.C., she is a peripatetic modern professional.  This may have been good for her career, but it is terrible for politics.

I find this a very interesting statement, when viewed through the lens of Canadian political culture, which sees the ability to span the gaps of regionalism as a political plus at the Federal level. How could this background be a political impediment for Dr Rice? It seems to me that it would be more likely to give her a broad understanding of the US, rather than one particular narrow regional focus. Is this not seen as a good thing?

Cheers.
 
I believe the implication is she hasn't "been around" in any place long enough to build the political network required to launch a successful political run for the White House.

On the other hand, she knows enough very influential people across the US (top level support); and if enough of these "Draft Rice" groups get together, a broad "populist" base of support could be created as well. This would be a very different sort of proposition than a potential run by Senator Clinton, a broad Internet based populist campaign teamed with a very powerful Republican Party machine, verses a more narrowly focused Democratic Party machine (Led by Howard Dean at present) which has access to "elite" support by the MSM and access to huge amounts of money through people like George Soros and Hollywood actors.

We have lots of time for this to play out.
 
Seems our RCA friends have a chip on their collective shoulders.

I agree. The US is not likely to see a Negro or Woman on the big ticket anytime soon. I can hope that they prove me wrong, but I don't see it.

Yes Rice has a lot of experience. And yes, they treated Powell horribly. The amount of racism in the States is quite profound. Not as bad as in the past, and slowly getting better. But just take a ride through some of the SE states (Not to mention some of the larger cities.) and you'll still see the marked differences. The fact that they are even allowed to still fly that stupid confederate flag screams out insult to a whole segment of society. Try flying the swastika and see what happens.

The number of people of minority coming up in the eyes of the US people (Hillery, Will Smith, Rice, Powell, that senator from Illinois) is a good sign that things are a changing.

 
Hypocrite? Any more than the members of this site who continue to bash the majority of Canadians who don't want a large military and support the existing social policies? If Canada is such a socialist, pacifist heck hole then get out!! 

How???

But seriously, I was looking into the American Military, and in order to be considered a green card is required. To the best of my knowledge it is extremely hard to get a green card, and an American Citizenship right. You would have to be sponsored by an employer, or invest 1,000,000 dollars into the US, or get married to an American. Now I cannot do any of those. If you have any other suggestiongs I'd love to hear them.

The majority of Canadian's have that view due to ignorance. I know that in my home province most people respect members of the armed forces, and would love to see more money pumped into the Canadian Armed Forces. Perhaps we should kick this province out of Canada as well.
 
The absolute best way to get a Green Card (my ultimate "Ace in the Hole") is to have a family member sponsor you. Otherwise, you are stuck with the options you mentioned.

Check with your nearest US consoulate for further information or details about immigration or joining the US military, if that is really your goal.
 
Uh Zipper did you say Will Smith? Like the Fresh Prince? Just wondering what you meant.
 
Hee hee  ;D

Wondered if someone would catch that.

Yep, I said it. He has actually said recently that he may enter politics in the future. Crazier then Arnold? I think not.

 
I guess it's no crazier than anyone getting in to politics. I still don't see how he has "come up in the eyes of US people" as you say.
 
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