"If you're not signed in, you're not covered" - Class A injury compensation

[PuckChaser]

Intersting...

I've recently heard that ther rules were changed to allow COs to charge people they've issued orders to by email for non-compliance with those orders.

So, if I get an order from my CO on a Monday night at 11.00pm while I'm at home watching the news, becasue there is no scheduled parade, can I sign in? Please say yes, because that will triple my mole-itia income!

Please don't tell me there's rules in place that sanction leadership via Blackberry.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Please don't tell me there's rules in place that sanction leadership via Blackberry.

Oh, it's been happening way before the Crack-berry,

I once received orders from my OC for an operational deployment to protect an airfield (a no notice, no duff op) via his pocket tape recorder. He, of course, had to leave on a long weekend with his family that he'd pre-booked at a resort, so all of us: Coy 2IC, Pl Comds, CSM & CQ, sat around this thing on his desk listening to his disembodied voice. We then spent the weekend doing battle prep for the deployment with the troops.

The only problem was, at the end of the tape, that clown of an OC didn't self-destruct.  :clown:

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Intersting...

I've recently heard that ther rules were changed to allow COs to charge people they've issued orders to by email for non-compliance with those orders.

I don't believe this is new.  Email is no different than any other communications medium.  Posting messages etc are issued via email and email is saved in RDIMS as a corporate record.  I've had to print out my emails on several occasions for ATI requests as well.

 

[lethalLemon]

I estimate that most NCOs and Officers are subsidizing the reserves to the tune of at least 15-20%. Many give more, just to be professional in the delivery of training etc. This uppaid planning and communications activity is crucial to the preparation and delivery of 'parade square' and weekend exercise training. Should they be able to sign a paysheet for this? What happens if someone gets injured when doing a recce of a training area (off the paysheet), as many of us have had to do in the past?

The tangent continues.....

It makes sense why ResF wouldn't be covered for Comp/Benefits unless signed in during parade/training night and weekend training; however one would think that if you had to do work outside of those standards days/hours that you would be compensated for your time and efforts... kinda like RCMP - although I only have a vague idea of how it works for them?

 

[Neill McKay]

however one would think that if you had to do work outside of those standards days/hours that you would be compensated for your time and efforts...

The way I look at it is this: we get paid, nominally, for six hours on a training night but work something less than that (if we were there for more than six hours we'd be getting a full day's pay for it).  That bit of "gravy" looks after part of the off-the-clock work we do.

 

[chrisf]

I don't believe this is new.  Email is no different than any other communications medium.  Posting messages etc are issued via email and email is saved in RDIMS as a corporate record.  I've had to print out my emails on several occasions for ATI requests as well.

Provided you can prove they received the orders, and in a timely fashion. Anything time sensitive done through e-mail can be a double edged sword. Network outages, software errors, user errors, and the fact that not all troops spend 24 hours per day at their desk all lend a fairly good defence against such as charge.

 

[dapaterson]

The way I look at it is this: we get paid, nominally, for six hours on a training night but work something less than that (if we were there for more than six hours we'd be getting a full day's pay for it).  That bit of "gravy" looks after part of the off-the-clock work we do.

By that same logic, we're cheating the system if we work less than 24 hours a day if signed in for a full day.

Reg F are paid of weekends when they do not work (and yes, ACK that there are times when trhey do work weekends, but it's not routine for every weekend for every Reg F member).

Reg F daily working rate of pay can be calculated by what a leave day cashout is worth (Monthly rate x 12 / 2087.04 x 8 is the formula, translating monthly to annual, to hourly, to daily rate).  If we used that as the basis for Res F compensation (85% of Reg F) pay rates would leap by 39.9% overnight (except for Pte, Ocdt 2Lt and Lt, who are paid more than 85% of the Reg F rate to provide competitive entry level pay).

However, a fundamental rethink of military compensation is needed - if we want enhanced readiness or availability, that should be compensated, whether Reg or Res, full or part time.  If you aren't physically fit you should be paid less.  Fail to maintain qualifications, you should be paid less.  That is beyond the scope of this thread, though (and has been "vigorously discussed" on the past on this board).

 

[chrisf]

Intersting...

I've recently heard that ther rules were changed to allow COs to charge people they've issued orders to by email for non-compliance with those orders.

So, if I get an order from my CO on a Monday night at 11.00pm while I'm at home watching the news, becasue there is no scheduled parade, can I sign in? Please say yes, because that will triple my mole-itia income!

As a reservist? Orders are not binding when you're not subject to the NDA (This came up a while back locally, an RSM was rather irate after he "ordered" a class A reservist to come in while in a telephone conversation. The reservist was at home, and not signed in, not in uniform, and as such, not subject to the NDA, so the order was not binding, no matter how much it angered the RSM).

On top of that, if you didn't respond, can anyone prove you received and read the e-mail?

 

[lethalLemon]

Thank you N. McKay and dapaterson for that insight. I learned something today

 

[Neill McKay]

By that same logic, we're cheating the system if we work less than 24 hours a day if signed in for a full day.

That's not an unreasonable point (leaving aside the limitations on human endurance).  Presumably part of the definition of "work" here includes time when you're not actually working but are subject to having to turn to at a moment's notice.

I'd note that, for purposes of EI calculations relating to Class B service, The System has refused to credit more than 35 (+/-) hours a week, so a Class B day for some purposes is defined as much less than 24 hours.  But that's only tangential to the discussion.

I'd estimate that I spend about as much time working for my unit off the clock as I do on; it's all part of the fun.

 

[Jarnhamar]

This sounds just like the purposely spread rumor "If you wear non-issued kit and you get hurt you won't be covered"

 

[Michael OLeary]

This sounds just like the purposely spread rumor "If you wear non-issued kit and you get hurt you won't be covered"

That enters a completely different "grey area". If your injury is directly associated with the failure of non-issue kit you chose to wear in lieu of issued kit that was designed to protect you, you may in fact have difficulty with your claim. It may not be denied outright, but there could be additional questions you will have to answer. But, if someone chooses to believe that no decision made by a chain of command can ever be right, then I guess they should also  be ready for any extra administrative hurdles they potentially set up for themselves.