Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement

[KevinB]

Which also impacts range.

Range and penetration.

 

[KevinB]

Metallurgy?

Generally longer is better but longer also means heavier and/or bendier with higher pressures in the breech and barrel.

Otherwise your guns look like this, with flanges and stays.

View attachment 93100

Yeah there is no free lunch.

Heavier barrels have there own pluses and minuses

While you can do a lot with non linear progressive gain twist to reduce barrel wear, at a certain point you are burning through barrels very quickly and the question needs to be asked if the juice is worth the squeeze

 

[Kirkhill]

Yeah there is no free lunch.

Heavier barrels have there own pluses and minuses

While you can do a lot with non linear progressive gain twist to reduce barrel wear, at a certain point you are burning through barrels very quickly and the question needs to be asked if the juice is worth the squeeze

Early Swiss innovation

Leather cannon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And the modern version

 

[suffolkowner]

i get the velocity,range issue. But more to the point why L58 instead of L56?. Why did the French saw of on L52?

 

[Kirkhill]

i get the velocity,range issue. But more to the point why L58 instead of L56?. Why did the French saw of on L52?

Ils sont francais.

 

[Underway]

i get the velocity,range issue. But more to the point why L58 instead of L56?. Why did the French saw of on L52?

Like anything else there are tradeoffs. A longer muzzle means that the explosive gases have a longer time to push against the round. At a certain point the round stops accellerating, basically when friction forces equal the propellant pushing forces.

So one reason could be development of a more powerful propellants over time, so longer barrels are need to take advantage of that.

Fiction forces also increase wear at different places along the barrel. Also the longer a round is in contact with the barrel it also suffers friction. All that physics goes into round performance, barrel life and barrel maintenance.

So when you do the math with different rounds, different charges and different materials on the round or in the barrel there are optimized solutions for all those variables based on what you expect your performace should be.

And thus different countries or companies will develop different barrel sizes.

As for the French thats the size that works the best for their mobility demands (I',m supposing, no evidence). So they have a completely different criteria, less range on the gun but better mobility on the smaller trucks. A larger truck would be needed for an L556 so it might not fit.

 

[NavyShooter]

I wonder if it's related to barrel harmonics perhaps?

NS

 

[KevinB]

Early Swiss innovation

Leather cannon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And the modern version

Only so much can be done with CF, there is still a steel liner.

 

[Kirkhill]

I wonder if it's related to barrel harmonics perhaps?

NS

I believe the French, and Germans and Brits and it seems just about everybody else has their own version of what a "standard" 155 round is and what charge systems are optimal. YMMV?

 

[Kirkhill]

Only so much can be done with CF, there is still a steel liner.

And the steel is thinner.

 

[KevinB]

And the steel is thinner.

Yes. However there is only so thin one can go without deformation. Too thin and either it gets narrow spots when wrapped by CF, or the CF isn’t tight and the barrel will bulge at times of heated.

The thermal release so often touted by CF wraps doesn’t always prove out in actuality, and even then it isn’t generally a major difference.

Plus the cost.


Now there are some neat CF, ceramic and steel layers being trialed currently, and they show promise, but still significantly more expensive

 

[RangerRay]

The bigger issue is nuclear forces.

Poland seeks access to nuclear arms and looks to build half-million-man army

Already a major spender within NATO, Warsaw has massive military plans as fears grow about the reliability of the U.S. as an ally against Russia.

www.politico.eu

Only a few years ago, if Poland announced they were looking to get nukes, The entire world would have lit their hair on fire. Now, crickets.

 

[markppcli]

Poland has committed to building the largest Army in Europe.
They already outstrip the Germany, UK and France as far as Army forces - the question will be what they do with their Air Force.

I got to tour a couple Polish units a couple weeks ago. They took first place in the tank shoot for Iron Spear. They aren’t pushing up to number four as @Czech_pivo suggested, they are the most serious army in Europe, minus the US Forces, period.

They already surpass the Germans in in service tanks ( 450 before you count the PT-90s v 291). In fact if you include their PT-90s they have more tanks than France and Germany combined. Their artillery park dwarfs the other European countries.

They’re building up and that comes with its own issues. I met a 22 yr old Lt that was the battery commander, battery 2nd, and first platoon commander. Heck of a lot of responsibility when he’s in charge of more guns than a Canadian Artillery Regiment. Those personnel issues are being solved, their recruiting heavily and their pay raise puts them shockingly close to our pay.

 

[Underway]

They’re building up and that comes with its own issues. I met a 22 yr old Lt that was the battery commander, battery 2nd, and first platoon commander. Heck of a lot of responsibility when he’s in charge of more guns than a Canadian Artillery Regiment. Those personnel issues are being solved, their recruiting heavily and their pay raise puts them shockingly close to our pay.

If I recall that pay goes further in Poland than it does in Canada. They also still have conscription as well to fill out the baseline bodies.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I got to tour a couple Polish units a couple weeks ago. They took first place in the tank shoot for Iron Spear. They aren’t pushing up to number four as @Czech_pivo suggested, they are the most serious army in Europe, minus the US Forces, period.

They already surpass the Germans in in service tanks ( 450 before you count the PT-90s v 291). In fact if you include their PT-90s they have more tanks than France and Germany combined. Their artillery park dwarfs the other European countries.

They’re building up and that comes with its own issues. I met a 22 yr old Lt that was the battery commander, battery 2nd, and first platoon commander. Heck of a lot of responsibility when he’s in charge of more guns than a Canadian Artillery Regiment. Those personnel issues are being solved, their recruiting heavily and their pay raise puts them shockingly close to our pay.

I guess that happens when you’ve been partitioned a few times, had others try to erase your language, religion and culture, been resurrected as a country only to be wiped off the map yet again and then brought back to life as a puppet state and watch your people leave in droves for decades and decades and decades for a better life elsewhere and then finally given given a fourth chance and entrance into an exclusive club where given a chance to thrive and resoundingly do so.

 

[markppcli]

Exactly that. I just think we tend to assume the British and French are bigger contributors, largely from a cultural bias.