Infantry Mortars (From: Pioneers)

[Michael OLeary]

Does that mean I get to grow a handlebar moustache?

Yup, and start practicing your "harrumph".

 

[SeanNewman]

Loachman,

Nobody is saying that the CF has never made mistakes, but ask yourself honestly how much the CF has failed you recently. 

At no point in the history of our military have we ever had so many excellent leaders making decisions that benefited us.  Is every single piece of kit we have the Rolls Royce?  No, but it's pretty damned close. 

You can quote the Griffon, LSVW, or whatever else you want from the 90s.

I'll quote the LAV3*, M777, Timberwolf, EROC, and C17 from this decade.

*I know the LAV3 project technically rolled out in 99, it's to prove a point that recently the CF leadership and staff have gotten far more things right than wrong, not even mentioning how much we're paid now.

 

[OldSolduer]

I think you should slow down a notch. The rush to drop one proven capability is biting us in the rear right now. And yes things have improved, I will grant you that.
I am all for CASW, provided its properly employed.

 

[aesop081]

according to the CF-endorsed findings that conducted the trial.

I have done a little bit of OT&E in my career and you blind faith in the trial results brings this to mind :

:rofl:

 

[OldSolduer]

I have done a little bit of OT&E in my career and you blind faith in the trial results brings this to mind :

:rofl:

I heartily concur!! :rofl:

 

[Loachman]

Then there's the Tac Vest from the buggeralls.

I have seen the same pattern over too many decades to have any faith at all that your absolutley fabulous trial is any better than any of its precedents.

I've also seen trials manipulated.

I have no direct stake in this at all, but the skeptics make more sense than you or your trial do, by far.

 

[SeanNewman]

It's not a matter of blind faith, I fully understand that trials can be flawed somewhat.

However, what do you think is more credible, a trial with set performance criteria or your anecdotal opinion?

 

[HItorMiss]

Here is a question...

Has anyone used both the 60mm Mortar and a CASW in combat and not on a nice comfy range?

Until there are people who have then I personally think the jury will remain out on the whole debate. Really what needs to be done is fielding of a CASW on a trial basis with overseas units and then compare which the troops found better in combat.

 

[Kirkhill]

Here is a question...

Has anyone used both the 60mm Mortar and a CASW in combat and not on a nice comfy range?

Until there are people who have then I personally think the jury will remain out on the whole debate. Really what needs to be done is fielding of a CASW on a trial basis with overseas units and then compare which the troops found better in combat.

Any Brits or Yanks on net?  I believe that both armies are issued both systems and employ them concurrently.  Kinda curious that, that both armies have concluded it is not an "either-or" discussion.


Horses for courses?

 

[HItorMiss]

I pretty much concur it isn't either/or.... But then again what do we know I mean we aren't the smart people who tell us what is best for us instead of just asking what we think.

 

[SeanNewman]

Has anyone used both the 60mm Mortar and a CASW in combat and not on a nice comfy range?

Yes, two armies a lot bigger than ours.

 

[HItorMiss]

What does the size of the fielding force have to do with combat effectiveness of a weapon system why should the Canadian Soldier have to choose when it is not so hard to maintain a current capability while adding a new one....

 

[daftandbarmy]

Here is a question...

Has anyone used both the 60mm Mortar and a CASW in combat and not on a nice comfy range?

Until there are people who have then I personally think the jury will remain out on the whole debate. Really what needs to be done is fielding of a CASW on a trial basis with overseas units and then compare which the troops found better in combat.

There might be something here - 25 pages of stuff on a similar subject: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/28805.0.html

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Loachman,
 
At no point in the history of our military have we ever had so many excellent leaders making decisions that benefited us. 

I am neither infantry nor any sort of commentator on the CASW/60mm mortar debate, but I saw this and had to laugh.

Really???? You really think that???

 

[40below]

Loachman,

You can quote the Griffon, LSVW, or whatever else you want from the 90s.

What's wrong with the Griffon? I know the maintainers say it's not built to the same standards as the America Huey, but I didn't think it was a Ross rifle with rotors either.

 

[George Wallace]

At no point in the history of our military have we ever had so many excellent leaders making decisions that benefited us.  Is every single piece of kit we have the Rolls Royce?  No, but it's pretty damned close. 

This from 2006:

But three years ago,  Gen. Rick Hillier, then army commander, labelled the Leopards as a "millstone" around the neck of the service. Several months later, Gen. Hillier wrote an article for the Citizen criticizing retired officers who wanted to keep the Leopard tanks in the army's inventory. He called those officers "armchair strategists" who didn't understand the changing face of warfare.

 

[SeanNewman]

1.  Nice attempt at grey journalism by quoting something I wrote and then quoting something else that I didn't write, but leaving it blank to imply that it was me.

2.  The tank debate is one I will even take up if you want, and you are just proving my point more.  If you are a tanker, what kind of tank did you have 10 or 20 years ago compared to now?  I'm pretty sure a 2A6 is the Rolls Royce of tanks.

 

[PMedMoe]

1.  Nice attempt at grey journalism by quoting something I wrote and then quoting something else that I didn't write, but leaving it blank to imply that it was me.

Seriously?  He even provided the link where the quote came from, if you bothered to look.

Sorry, back on topic.

 

[vonGarvin]

The brits went through this in 2006 as they hit Helmand.  The lost the 51mm mortar because BAE was no longer going to make ammo for it.  A UOR was pushed up for a replacement, and they received a 60mm.  The troops loved it for many of the reasons mentioned here.  Initially it was for AFSTAN employed units only; however, it has since been fielded across the UK Army.

They still have a GMG, and there is nobody suggesting that one can replace the other.

 

[SeanNewman]

...nobody suggesting that one can replace the other.

You and I know that and are happy with both, but some people on here want drama and blood.

We're at war, pick a side!