Infantry wearing black berets?

[Scoobie Newbie]

yeah I think that's it.  Thanks PPCLI MCpl.  Also I don't think the Patrica's or the RCR are called Strats, more likely Anti-armour platoon etc.  I will ask a guy I know who is there Monday for confirmation on that.

 

[Gunner]

Also I don't think the Patrica's or the RCR are called Strats, more likely Anti-armour platoon etc.

Well, they form E Coy, LdSH(RC).  Why wouldn't they be referred to as Strat's?  They belong to that unit.

 

[McG]

when you add reserve unit head dress your almost in a whole other world.   Off the top of my head there is the Balmoral which you described, the Glen Garry (kinda like a high speed wedge with tails), and the Irish reg wears [Caubeen]

Do we have any regts that wear the tam o'shanter?

Well, they form E Coy, LdSH(RC).   Why wouldn't they be referred to as Strat's?  

A Patricia with the TOW is now a defining part of the LdSH regimental identity.  I would think he should be able to identify himself with both regiments without somehow distancing himself from the one displayed on his beret.

 

[Gunner]

A Patricia with the TOW is now a defining part of the LdSH regimental identity.  I would think he should be able to identify himself with both regiments without somehow distancing himself from the one displayed on his beret.

Well, they wear their hatbadge identifying themselves as Particia's and a black beret as belonging to an armoured unit.

 

[mcnutt_p]

Well, they form E Coy, LdSH(RC).   Why wouldn't they be referred to as Strat's?   They belong to that unit.

Look at a HQ Sqn of an armd regt. It is comprised of mostly CSS. They like to be referred to by there trade and on the most part, don't consider themselves a Strat or a Dragoon. Referring to the Patrica's as Strat's would be an insult to both the Strat's and the Patrica's.  

Before I switched from the infantry to the armoured during my three's there was a major   emphases on "Once a Royal, always a Royal", I believe the same is for the Patrica's. They earned the right to wear the cap badge of there regiment and should be refereed to as that.

McNutt

 

[Old Ranger]

Well at least they can have fun, knowing;
that they are confusing the heck out of Armoured Guys/Gals
By doing all that "Running Stuff" in Black Berets ;D

 

[McG]

Referring to the Patrica's as Strat's would be an insult to both the Strat's and the Patrica's.

That seems a little small minded.  I think "regiment" is a more inclusive word today that it once was.  In fact, I would see it as a much deeper compliment if a regiment saw an outsider as worthy of being identify as one of its own.

 

[CHARLIE-MURPHY(Hammy)]

I know a few guys that went there and as far as I know they still belong to the PPCLI but while they are formed up on parade they all are referred to as Strats and they don't like. Simply because they are Patricia's not Armoured. As of regimental dues im not sure what happens there. As an Infantryman I do not agree with the whole black beret bit, but they can at least call Patricia's , Patricia's not Strats.
We have earned the right to be Patricia's and wear the cap badge, and to be called Patricia's.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Just curious, but in the battle groups formed for operational tours over the past decade, have they used generic principal unit tiles on parade ("Princess Patricia's", "Royal Canadians"), or were the individual attached sub-units always recognized separately?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And how 'bout all the fitters, gun plumbers, clerks, log types and jimmy's. They are not "Strathconas" either, but part of the Regimental family anyway, as I'm sure the "Patricias" are also considered.

 

[Recce41]

CFL
The navy does not wear blk. It is really blue, but for some reason its blk. We had a navy clerk that wore a true navy very dark blue beret.

 

[Bug Guy]

CFL
The navy does not wear blk. It is really blue, but for some reason its blk. We had a navy clerk that wore a true navy very dark blue beret.

Isn't the issue colour of beret and not hat badge?  I would rather be lit of fire than be called a strat, but I proudly wear a black beret as a crew commander and armoured recce specialist.  Don't you think this is the same as the maroon beret for the Patricia's?  Maroon = airborne.  Black = armoured cav.

:skull:

 

[Michael OLeary]

Actually, both beret colours are authorized for wear based on posting to unit rather than trade (actually both in the case of black). It's the commonly expressed view of Armour Corps personnel telling others that the black beret is "thiers" that has become accepted, rather than it's broader applicability to unit rather than trade.

A-AD-265-000/AG-001
Canadian Forces Dress Instructions


Pages 6-1-2 - 6-1-3

4. Army Uniforms 

a. Armour Personnel and Units. The black beret or turban shall be worn with all orders of dress by Armour Branch personnel and by non-Armour Branch personnel wearing the army uniform who are on the posted strength of an armoured unit, except when precluded by operational or safety requirements (see full dress and undress (patrol dress), Chapter 5).


e. Paratroop Personnel and Airborne Units. The maroon beret or turban shall be worn with all orders of dress by qualified parachutists wearing the army uniform, when on the posted strength of an airborne unit, designated airborne sub-unit or element, and the Canadian Parachute Centre. The maroon beret or turban is further authorized for wear by qualified parachutists wearing the army uniform when on staff, exchange, or liaison duties, and, while so employed, in receipt of paratroop allowance.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

MCG you would be surprised.
"That seems a little small minded.  I think "regiment" is a more inclusive word today that it once was.  In fact, I would see it as a much deeper compliment if a regiment saw an outsider as worthy of being identify as one of its own."

That's why if we ever do something like the Marine Corp in the future they probably should make up a new name, badge etc.

 

[McG]

MCG you would be surprised.

I don't think I would be.  I know that I am speaking idealistically.  It is at the soldier level that pers are less willing to give/receive the complement of a regiment saying "your good enough to be called one of us."

If you have a look at the PPCLI roll of Honour (Museum of Regiments or in the official history written by David J. Bercuson), you will find MCpl M.R. Isfeld, 1 CER.  He is the only person in the roll with another regiment annotated to his name (thus not distancing him from the Engr), but I cannot think of a higher honour that a regiment might give to a fallen "outsider" than to so clearly label him as a loss suffered to the regiment. 

The Puka Sapper tradition initiates an outsider to the engineer family without affecting any ties already in place to other branch or regimental families.  Smokey Smith was a Puka Sapper (as I learned shortly after his death), but that did not make him any less a Seaforth.

I've also listen in on a few theoretical debates over the admin sqn and sigs pers wearing 1 CER or branch slip-ons.  Generally, the engr argument came down to one thing:  would we as a regiment be proud to have those soldiers identified with us or would we rather be able to publicly brush them of as being from some other branch.  At least for as long as I've been with the regiment, we have been happy for outsiders to look on our support pers and say "there is a 1 CER soldier."  The other side of the argument: are the support pers proud enough to identify themselves with the regiment.

From this point, I think it becomes an issue of leadership (and if leadership is trying to be part of the problem or part of the solution).

 

[TCBF]

A long time ago, getting ready for a Tank Commander's (6A) Crse, I briefly looked at the Corps 86 ORBATS.

An Armoured Regiment was to have 51 officers and 702 other ranks.  Made up of something like 14 trades and 5 classifications.  In such a regiment, 011 Crewman would almost be half the soldiers.  The next biggest trade was 411 Veh Techs (51 of them).  ALL are considered Dragoons/Strats/Hussars/Garrys etc.  The Regiment defines 753 souls, not just the armoured soldiers.

I did Roto 6 in Bosnia and Op APPOLO 02 with 3PPCLI BG.  They were Btl Gps of Patricias, but the PPCLI hat badge may not have been worn on 50% of the cap badges.  STILL, it was 3 PPCLI BG.  I was one of a dozen or so trades in that BG. 

When a guy from The PPCLI got posted to 2 Cdo of the Cdn AB Regt, no one told him to stop being loyal to the PPCLI, right?  He changed his beret and badge, but was still a Patricia, and if on parade they were collectively refered to as "Airborne Regiment", he was still a Patricia as well.

Right?

So, if on parade, the Strathconas are adressed as such, those on parade that are Patricias are STILL Patricias.  They just also happen to be Strathconas.  You can't have people serving side by side in a regiment and then say that half - or more - of them are not REALLY of the Regiment.  That goes against the grain of everything we have learned about developing primary groups.

Tom

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I'll reserve comment if or unitl I get posted there.

 

[bitterntwisted]

i recognize that regimental pride is a good thing, but really gents,  the only patch that counts has a red maple leaf central and two red bars????

these colour don't run

bl

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Do we have any regts that wear the tam o'shanter?

Highland regiments wear either the balmoral, the tam o'shanter, or in some cases, both.  The Calgary Highlanders wear both; with officers and WO's/Sr NCOs in balmorals, and Jr Ranks in Tam O'Shanters.  With the DEU, the glengarry is worn.  The glengarry can also be worn with the CADPAT uniform when ordered. So we have all three types of common Highland headdress in one unit.  Some other units are the same, others restrict to two of the above, possibly one of the above in some units.

 

[grayman]

Why not do like some highland units and place a square peice of their tartan behind the capbadge, but instead of tartan a square of rifle green felt so we as grunts and gunners can differentiate ouselves from the ARMD but at the same time keep the zipperheads happy by wearing "their" beret.