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ING Direct mortgage & porting using DND clause

Occam

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CDN Aviator said:
Military kit i assume.

Ah, that makes some sense.  I was thinking "kit cars?", "kit homes?"...

Not much point in an insurance company covering military kit - if it were stolen or burned in a fire, you'd be able to write it up under a material loss report.  I've only ever heard of someone being liable for issue kit if it were lost due to their own negligence.
 

ballz

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I have tenant's insurance with the Personal, and I have $5000 insurance on my kit included with that. It says on the site, "because it's the DND's kit, and your responsible for it." Maybe I'm getting ripped off but it was a good sales pitch, they earned the extra couple bucks a year ;D

A guy on my CAP course had a bunch of stuff stolen during travels, including his kevlar helmet. After some paperwork with the MPs and stuff, I'm pretty sure he ended up footing the bill, or most of the bill, for it. Maybe it's not supposed to be like that, but that was the result. So I'm happy with having the insurance.

On another note, I'm saving an @$$load on auto insurance with the Personal. Almost 2K a year I believe.
 

Pusser

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ballz said:
I have tenant's insurance with the Personal, and I have $5000 insurance on my kit included with that. It says on the site, "because it's the DND's kit, and your responsible for it." Maybe I'm getting ripped off but it was a good sales pitch, they earned the extra couple bucks a year ;D

A guy on my CAP course had a bunch of stuff stolen during travels, including his kevlar helmet. After some paperwork with the MPs and stuff, I'm pretty sure he ended up footing the bill, or most of the bill, for it. Maybe it's not supposed to be like that, but that was the result. So I'm happy with having the insurance.

On another note, I'm saving an @$$load on auto insurance with the Personal. Almost 2K a year I believe.

Unless you are negligent, you should never have to pay for any military kit that is lost or destroyed in your home.  If your guy had to pay for the stuff lost during his "travels," I would hope that it was because he never should have been "traveling" with the stuff in the first place.  Bottom line - if your house burns down and your military issue kit (NB: this does not include anything you get through Logistik Unicorp) is destroyed, all you should have to do is fill out the Stores Loss Report so you can get it re-issued.  Only your dress uniforms need to be claimed on your insurance.

As stated above, The Personal and SISIP have nothing to do with each other.  What I suspect happened was a SISIP agent was asked about auto and/or house insurance (which they don't offer) and so gave The Personal as an example of a company that does provide those products and is friendly to the military.
 

Redeye

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Nix said:
Has anyone here used the portability clause with ING? Specifically blend and extend, the clause says they will give you their best rate. I am unclear if this simply means their posted rate or the actual rate others are being offered. I like that they don't use the IRD for breaking a mortgage, and I can get p-.9 via a broker, which puts us at 2.1% for a closed variable 5 yr, and their posted rates are always decent but always you can get a lower rate than the posted one. Just curious if anyone here can give an actual experience with ING so I can get a better idea what will happen when we port over in ~3 years with them.

Quick thing here - IRD is never used for variable rate mortgages, it only ever applies to fixed rates.  I'm glad to see some comments about better experiences with ING, because when I used to be involved in the mortgage business I saw a lot of horror shows with them.  Glad to hear that they have improved!
 

toughenough

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I'm currently with ING, and trying to figure out my next move.

I'm in the process of settling things from a divorce. ING will do a "release of covenant" and take her name off the mortgage and keep it "as is", but won't approve me on my own for the mortgage due to some credit card debt. If I roll that debt into the mortgage, I'll get approved for it, but will have to pay the penalty for breaking the mortgage.

$6200 to break it outright, $4500 to break it and sign another mortgage with them. Either way, my rate will drop like crazy because I'm on a 4.91 fixed, and looking to be at about 2.3% variable after re-mortgaging. I just don't understand the logic in charging my a fee to resign a (bigger) mortgage with them, where I'll be on the hook for even more interest, over a longer period of time.

Regardless, this thread is very timely.

Cheers
 

Redeye

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toughenough said:
I'm currently with ING, and trying to figure out my next move.

I'm in the process of settling things from a divorce. ING will do a "release of covenant" and take her name off the mortgage and keep it "as is", but won't approve me on my own for the mortgage due to some credit card debt. If I roll that debt into the mortgage, I'll get approved for it, but will have to pay the penalty for breaking the mortgage.

$6200 to break it outright, $4500 to break it and sign another mortgage with them. Either way, my rate will drop like crazy because I'm on a 4.91 fixed, and looking to be at about 2.3% variable after re-mortgaging. I just don't understand the logic in charging my a fee to resign a (bigger) mortgage with them, where I'll be on the hook for even more interest, over a longer period of time.

Regardless, this thread is very timely.

Cheers

Not hard to explain, actually.  I'll simplify it but this is the basic idea.  When you signed the 4.91% fixed, they had to raise the capital to loan to you - which means they agreed to pay a depositor a certain rate of interest for a certain period of time.  They did this because you agreed to pay them, and they make money on the spread between the two.  If you break your mortgage they still have their obligation - so they'll either charge you a penalty of three months' interest (ie enough time to find a replacement mortgage client) or the Interest Rate Differential, which is essentially the present value of the difference between what they were charging you and what they can get now when they loan the money back out.  Whichever is higher, you pay.

That said, in a case like that, you should be able to get a blended rate without any penalty - the new money at the current rate, the old money stays at the same rate until its maturity date.  You'd have to compare that interest cost to the net savings from breaking the mortgage altogether.  You might well (based on the rates you quoted) wind up saving a lot of money even with the up-front breakage cost.
 

toughenough

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That's actually my expectation. Currently I drop $650 a month on debt repayment. If I re-mortgage, with the lower interest, I bet my monthly mortgage payment will be equal to or lesser than it is now (in which case I'd bump it up to equal current and pay off faster). At that point, I'd have $650 of disposable income per month, that I can find ways to spend (pay down mortgage, RRSPs, etc).
 

Anny

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I thought ING only had the 3 months interest penalty and no IRD?  Judging by the amount of penalty, it sounds like they are more than charging you three months interest.

The IRD may be dismissed if it's a DND move due to a posting... you're the one with the paperwork so toughenough, I assume you know for certain, I'm just bringing it up because I could have sworn there were no IRD penalities with ING.

By the way, if you work via a broker you'll get P-.9, which means with prime at 3.0 right now, you should be able to get 2.1% variable with ING (5 yr term).  In your case it's well worth breaking that fixed rate you have right now.
 

Pusser

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Anny said:
I thought ING only had the 3 months interest penalty and no IRD?  Judging by the amount of penalty, it sounds like they are more than charging you three months interest.

The IRD may be dismissed if it's a DND move due to a posting... you're the one with the paperwork so toughenough, I assume you know for certain, I'm just bringing it up because I could have sworn there were no IRD penalities with ING.

By the way, if you work via a broker you'll get P-.9, which means with prime at 3.0 right now, you should be able to get 2.1% variable with ING (5 yr term).  In your case it's well worth breaking that fixed rate you have right now.

The bottom line is that banks don't lose money and ING, despite operating somewhat differently than most banks, is still a bank.  They will always work the terms of the mortgage in their favour if you need to break it.  A simple three month penalty may not cover their losses if the financial climate goes a certain way.
 

Cpl4Life

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Anny said:
I thought ING only had the 3 months interest penalty and no IRD?  Judging by the amount of penalty, it sounds like they are more than charging you three months interest.

The IRD may be dismissed if it's a DND move due to a posting... you're the one with the paperwork so toughenough, I assume you know for certain, I'm just bringing it up because I could have sworn there were no IRD penalities with ING.

By the way, if you work via a broker you'll get P-.9, which means with prime at 3.0 right now, you should be able to get 2.1% variable with ING (5 yr term).  In your case it's well worth breaking that fixed rate you have right now.

Annie is correct, ING has a DND/RCMP clause, so a max of 3 months interest should be the penalty, but in toughenough's case it appears he is not doing an IRP move so it may not apply, but there's no harm in asking them.  Toughenough you should ask whomever your contact is to verify this.  I can supply you with a copy (link online) of their DND clause, pm me if you need it thoughenough.
 

toughenough

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Thanks for the replies, but it's not a move for a posting - it's actually not even a move, just re-mortgaging on an existing property. So I'm going to assume the DND clause is a mute point?
 

Cpl4Life

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I would still try it if I were you, simply say you're DND and see what they say, maybe you'll luck out.
 

Pusser

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Small point:  DND and CF are not synonymous.  In fact, the CF and DND are separate entities.  I doubt ING has a "DND" clause.  They might have a "CF" clause, but I really don't think they offer that kind of deal to civilian employees of the department.  It would make more sense if it was restricted to CF members.  In fact, if they insist it is a "DND" clause, it wouldn't actually apply to CF members as we are not part of DND.
 

Cpl4Life

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Good point Pusser.  ING indeed calls it "DND" policy (as in they use the DND acronym, not CF), but it only applies when you are posted and doing an IRP move, and I doubt (although I'm not positive) any civvys actually get posted so it would not apply in their case.
 

kawa11

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Occam said:
He didn't say he had mortgage insurance.  Actually, he correctly stated that for the most part, mortgage insurance offered by the banks is mostly useless to CF members because of the plethora of exclusions they have.

What he said was that SISIP is a cheaper alternative to mortgage insurance, and has none of the exclusions which would affect CF members.
This is kind of an eye opener to me. When I signed my mortgage [& mortgage insurance] I don't think I thought I'd be joining the CF.
Someone tell me there's gonna be a clerk somewhere with all the answers or some kind of list of "CF Friendly" insurers..
 

Occam

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kawa11 said:
This is kind of an eye opener to me. When I signed my mortgage [& mortgage insurance] I don't think I thought I'd be joining the CF.
Someone tell me there's gonna be a clerk somewhere with all the answers or some kind of list of "CF Friendly" insurers..

I'm reasonably sure that your mortgage insurance is not "locked-in"; that is, you can cancel it at any time if you choose.  If you join the CF, investigate cancelling the mortgage insurance.  SISIP would be much cheaper, and not have any pesky clauses that will prevent the insurer from paying out if you pass on as a result of military service.

Between SISIP Group Term insurance (maximum $400,000 coverage for you, and the same for your spouse), SISIP Supplementary Death Benefit (2 x your yearly base salary), and any Veterans Affairs survivor benefit your spouse would get, if your mortgage isn't paid off upon your untimely demise, with a fair amount to spare, you have too much house.
 

kawa11

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Occam said:
I'm reasonably sure that your mortgage insurance is not "locked-in"; that is, you can cancel it at any time if you choose.  If you join the CF, investigate cancelling the mortgage insurance.  SISIP would be much cheaper, and not have any pesky clauses that will prevent the insurer from paying out if you pass on as a result of military service.

Between SISIP Group Term insurance (maximum $400,000 coverage for you, and the same for your spouse), SISIP Supplementary Death Benefit (2 x your yearly base salary), and any Veterans Affairs survivor benefit your spouse would get, if your mortgage isn't paid off upon your untimely demise, with a fair amount to spare, you have too much house.
I'm young, have a family and tired of living in cramped spaces - "too much house" is a far off dream not a burden!  ;)

Thanks for your input. I'll be sure to look into SISIP.
 

Occam

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kawa11 said:
I'm young, have a family and tired of living in cramped spaces - "too much house" is a far off dream not a burden!  ;)

Thanks for your input. I'll be sure to look into SISIP.

Sounds like you have your head screwed on the correct number of turns.  ;D

Using the age you posted previously, and the fact that you posted that you're a smoker (or at least have smoked a cigarette in the last year), $400000 of SISIP OGTI would cost you $38 per month.  That's pretty hard to beat.  I'm almost 45 and an ex-smoker (more than three years since I quit now), and my rate is just about to jump from $42 to $54 per month for the same coverage.
 
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