Int Op or Int Officer

[Signal-Man]

Acknowledged - thanks.

I did see the BPSO several times over the past 2 years.   Though my meetings pertained to the commissioned side of the house.   I also had to go trough the testing and interview phases with a PSO when I progressed through the UTPNCM competition.   Though as stated, I placed 4th out of 60 candidates; 2 of which were selected.   (Close but NO ... back to work Cpl, try again, gain more time in whilst your at it.)

But you are correct . . . OT and UTPNCM are completely different beasts, a trip or two back to the BPSO will undoubtedly be required.

Thanks again for the insight, enjoy your drink.

VVV

 

[George Wallace]

One thing about any Intelligence thread...once it is posted, you really don't know who you are talking too, and how many others are browsing in on the conversations.  You would be surprised if there was a "trip counter"next to your post, to see how many hits you were getting.  Like flys to..........

 

[Acorn]

A quick and dirty attempt to directly answer your questions.

- 1 - Does my education hold any use / value to the Int branch?

- 2 - Would it be easier to remuster to Int Op, then attempt either a UTPNCM or a CFR to commissioned status depending on my rank?

- 3 - I gather about 7 years of training from my current rank of Cpl to 2Lt if I UTP now.   Is this duration roughly correct?
               > about 3-4 yrs study (approx.)
               > 1 yr 2nd language training
               > 4 more weeks of Basic Training (as I heard we jr. ncm's must return to complete the officer portion)
               > 8 weeks Common Army Phase trg in Gagetown
               > 6 months Basic Int Officer Course in K-town (back I go . . . just got outta there from my QL 5's)
               > 6 months to 1 year of OJT, waiting and application procedures for the UTP program (interviews, tests, etc.)

- 4 - Rumour control has it that the branch is short of operators and accelerated promotions are more frequent within this trade as Sgt serves as the base rank for the purposes of briefings, reporting and advanced courses which are needed under the belts of your NCO corps.   Is this assumption true?   Have WO's really been made within 6-7 years of branch entry?   If that were the case, then within 5 years, Sgt is possibly forseeable, which opens a whole new door on entry options such as CFR, effectively cutting down commission time (if that's still my goal) by 1 - 2 yrs.

1. Your education and experience would have some value, however more from an Operator than Officer perspective. It won't be looked at for OT though, as the Branch doesn't have much control over who ends up attending the QL5a.

2. Are you interested in what is "easier" or in where you will ultimately end up?

3. I have no insight into how long it will take.

4. Accelerated promotions are rare, but minimum time in rank is not uncommon. There is a bottleneck at MCpl, so some Cpl will wait up to 3 years for that promotion. It's then min 2 years to Sgt. Yes, Sgt is considered the "working rank" in that Sgts are expected to be able to work independently. IMO promotion is too quick. There are a very few WOs with 7 years in the Branch. I don't think that's going to be a trend. If your goal is commission though, just making Sgt isn't going to make things any faster. You'd have to put a couple-few years in rank to be selected. As well, most CFR are WO and up.

I get the impression that you want the commission, and you're just trying to find the fastest route. If that's your goal, don't bother with the OT route.

Acorn

 

[Signal-Man]

Thank you for the insight Acorn:

No, I'm not looking for the fastest route to a commission, but rather the best method of getting into the Branch itself, and summarily, where I would be needed & most effectively employed.   A commission has crossed my mind several times yes ... to the point where I competed in last years UTP.   It will still hold some ground in my decision making process.

But since obtaining some butter-bars will take a significant investment in both time and other such resources, I thought that perhaps becoming a non-com Int would yield more benefit to me if I still decided to persue this goal, rather then remaining in Sigs.

Clarrifying my educational worth into both Op & Officer also was helpful.

I'll have to put some more thought and research into this ... thank you for your assistance.

Oh, and one more thing - you mentioned shortages in the profession in other posts of similar relation to this one.  Is the manning problem an issue across the rank spectrum or is it concentrated in enlisted or commissioned ranks?

VVV

 

[Acorn]

The manning problem is mainly in the mid-level ranks both commissioned and not - Sgt and Maj.

As for OT, it may be slightly faster, though much of that is dependent on your current unit (and how quickly they process the request), the PSO and the recruiting system (which now handles OT selection, I believe). Two to three years from application to course loading is not unheard of, though I think it's sitting average about a year to 18 months right now.

If you want to have influence in the Int Branch, I would suggest the officer route, as NCMs don't get much say 'till WO.

Have you had a chance to visit with some of the Int folks in your neighbourhood? You might be able to get a better insight into what life is like at the lower rank levels both officer and NCM.

Acorn

 

[Signal-Man]

Thanks again:

I've read a 144-page document pertaining to Int Ops and a 20-page doc on Int Officers provided to me by my PSO.   Your words bear true, as with most branches, us low-level NCM's provide small, specialized functions and duties that combine into large, complex pieces of information at the upper levels into more tangible components for the commanders & advisory staff to utilize.

For Int, data collation & analysis seem to pop-up in the job descriptions time and again . . . which seems to me like sorting and processing finished projects and materials without doing much, if any intelligence acquisition & dissemination duties yourself.

For Officers, it seems like, as with most in the officer corps regardless of branch, that their duties lie with the management of personnel and resources and the effective employment of all components under their command.

If I'm on target thus far, I would conclude that Sgt's and WO's, besides the leadership and disciplinary roles they play due to their rank, appointment (if applicable), and XP are the main intelligence gatherers, imagery analysts, damage & target assessors, EW and Counter-EW specialists, Sig-Int, HUMINT and interrogation personnel.

I know of an ex-RCR Master-Jack whose now an Int Officer with this thick n' thins, I don't think he's started his BOIC yet, but he's in the know of some very experienced WO's in the Branch who'd I love to converse with over a cup of joe.

Again, thank you Acorn for your help.

Signal-Man