International Actions of Nationalism

[Douke]

As with all complex matters, it ends in a logical fork, as there are good arguments for both sides, so I will answer instinctivly instead of logically.

(sorry if my English is not at it's top, I am working hard to improve it)

First, I will establish two things, then again they are only opinions :

1-I think a nation is a group of people who share common culture and goals.

2-I think people can have many identities who are not mutually exclusive. An Asian immigrant can retain his (for example) Chinese identity, while acquiring his new Canadian identity. However, some identities have parts who are mutually exclusive, and a choice have to be made.

I am personally someone who is very interested in learning from other cultures, but personal interest is not revelant in matters concerning a nation. The nation has it's own interest, who has to be respected if the nation as an organisation want to be of any use (we are living in a nation because it allows us to be more productive, to live better) to the people composing it. Why live in a nation if you don't get any benefits from it, might as well all live on our own little house separatly and retain our full freedom. Well, those in those interests of the nations you will find that it is best for a nation that the largest proportion possible of it's people share common values so they plan on heading in the same direction. Take Finland, for example, who achieved the title of the nation with the best quality of life this year. It is now fairly large concensus among experts that the Scandinavian country got there because of it's culturally homogenical society, wich allowed them to take drastic turns in their industry (they mostly abandonned direct production, on wich they could not compete with countries like China or Taiwan to concentrate on technological innovations, Nokia being the perfect example of what the modern Finnish industry tries to be), wich could not be achieved by a country where everyone is pulling on their side of the blanket.

If you forget the economical well-being of your nation and look only and the cultural/human rights side, a few years ago I talked with a muslim woman (She was from Tunisia if I remember well, but I would not want to make an error on that, my memory is a factuly that forgets), who wasn't going out unveiled. I asked her why did she leve her country, and she answered she came over to Canada because the customs of her native country were too rough on women, and that she did not want to raise her childrens in that climate. Back then I didn't say anything because I was much yonger and didn't want to offend her, but if I could talk with her today, I would ask :"then, why bring them over?".

Lastly, I don't know why we feel we have to justify so much on forcing people to adapt to our culture. If I traveled to Iran with my girlfriend and she roamed the streets in a bikini, I would be very curious about their reaction. (I like the message of TheNomad, showing how the same people who say we should kill all homosexuals because they are different, cry for intolerance when they are retrained on wearing a traditional cloth.)

My personal opinion, in no way the right one (if the right opinion exists), hoping to get constructive critics.
Douke

 

[George Wallace]

Interesting.  With the recent events in France with Fire bombings and riots and then in Australia with raids on Terrorist cells; are we going to see more actions taken by Governments along the lines that the Dutch have?  Will jailings or expulsions become common place?  Could the riots escalate to something more violent and require the use of military force?

 

[Simonov]

Why not avoid similar problems altogether and draw immigration from an ethnically homogeneous region with a relatively skilled workforce (i.e Eastern Europe)? How do you expect people with no concept of sanitation or footwear to assimilate properly with a modern Western society. Why should the basis of our commonality, spanning heritage, history and culture be threatened by some foreigners, who have not contributed in any way to their host nations. Look how well ethnic diversity is working in France, rioting, disorder, mounting crime rates among the African and Arab minorities (I do however believe that the French do deserve that for their colonial arrogance). I'm glad Europe is finally beginning to realise what decades of liberal opportunism have resulted in, and a political shift to the right is definitely a healthy step towards maintaining European integrity. TheNomad, I fully understrand where you're coming from, being from Northern Germany myself (Hamburg) I have witnessed the formation of crime infested ghettos along with the influx of Middle-Eastern migrants, where even police dare not venture.

 

[paracowboy]

Mr. Hoess, your table for two is ready.  :

 

[George Wallace]

Why not avoid similar problems altogether and draw immigration from an ethnically homogeneous region with a relatively skilled workforce (i.e Eastern Europe)? ..................... TheNomad, I fully understrand where you're coming from, being from Northern Germany myself (Hamburg) I have witnessed the formation of crime infested ghettos along with the influx of Middle-Eastern migrants, where even police dare not venture.

Interesting statements here.   When the "Wall" came down there was a large influx of "Germans" from the East who set up large ghettos in major urban centers in Germany.   They collected nice Welfare Cheques.   They didn't actively go looking for work or education.   They brought with them a large crime element, including the Russian Mafia.   In many locations the Crime Rate increased 500%.   And these were not Middle-Eastern migrants, but East Europeans.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Why not avoid similar problems altogether and draw immigration from an ethnically homogeneous region with a relatively skilled workforce (i.e Eastern Europe)? How do you expect people with no concept of sanitation or footwear to assimilate properly with a modern Western society. Why should the basis of our commonality, spanning heritage, history and culture be threatened by some foreigners, who have not contributed in any way to their host nations. Look how well ethnic diversity is working in France, rioting, disorder, mounting crime rates among the African and Arab minorities ...

Why not avoid similar problems altogether and draw immigrants from countries/regions with, both:

"¢ the sorts of sophisticated cultures which allow those immigrants to settle quickly and easily into the liberal, democratic, secular, capitalist society we have here; and

"¢ surpluses of such people?

In my opinion that would mean shifting about 90% of our focus (quota, really) away from Africa, Europe, Latin America and the Middle East/West Asia towards East and South Asia - mostly China and India and, to a lesser extent, Malaysia and the Philippines.

 

[Maritime_Matt]

These people (immigrants) frequently have a work ethic like you wouldn't believe. My wife is from S. Korea + she is amazed at how... slack... people have it here, at the pace of and attitudes towards work. They have to work so hard just to fit in, get the language, etc. These people bring up the value of our economy significantly.

 

[Glorified Ape]

Mr. Hoess, your table for two is ready.   :

Indeed... jawol mein fuhr.  :boring:

 

[Simonov]

Indeed... jawol mein fuhr.    :boring:

That's really quite ignorant, and insulting.

George Wallace, you are correct about Eastern Germans finding it difficult adapting to the market economy, but after living in Berlin through 1993-98 I have noticed no such spike in crime as you mention.

 

[Infanteer]

That's really quite ignorant, and insulting.

Yeah, well so it this:

Why not avoid similar problems altogether and draw immigration from an ethnically homogeneous region with a relatively skilled workforce (i.e Eastern Europe)? How do you expect people with no concept of sanitation or footwear to assimilate properly with a modern Western society.

Talk about painting with a broad-brush.  I didn't know "footwear choice" was a requirement for citizenship....

 

[George Wallace]

George Wallace, you are correct about Eastern Germans finding it difficult adapting to the market economy, but after living in Berlin through 1993-98 I have noticed no such spike in crime as you mention.

Then you are looking at a major metropolitan area that is located in the Former East Germany.   Crime rose   500% in Baden-Wurttemburg during that same period, due in a large part to the influx of these "Germans" who moved into former Nato Bases that were being vacated.