Iran accuses Canada

[Fishbone Jones]

You know what? I can claim no responsibility for what happened 50, 100 or 200 years ago. Just as I'm not at fault for what is happening today. The idea that a whole society can be blamed for the mistreatment of a group, or their self inflicted problems is ludicrous. I don't control what the government does. I have tried to change things with my vote, and it doesn't work. I have a hard enough time making ends meet with the way I am taxed and my money being given away to ausage and coddle people that won't help themselves. My priority is my family then myself, the rest will have to get in line, but I refuse to accept the blame for something I had nothing to do with. I didn't diddle any little kids, I didn't put anyone on a reserve, I didn't take their land (which they likely took from the weaker group next to them before we got here) and I don't force anyone to spend their whole welfare check on drugs and lysol. Other than the fact that I was born here and happen to be white and english and you claim it's my fault, it's not good enough. I say your claim is garbage. "WE" can make a difference and would if "WE" could. And "WE" try to, but "WE" do it because it is morally right. Not because "WE" are at fault.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>We are not saints

Canada never will be, but it's still much better than many other nations.  What's your point, that Canada should take thugs and tyrants more seriously than Canadians take themselves?

>we have commited our fair share of abuses and mistakes over the years

Speak for yourself.  I desire less government and would be quite happy to have politicians and civil servants spend less time building their tax-funded empires and screwing people over in the process.  Don't misuse "we".

>It is reprehensible for us to assume that since we throw money at the First Nations, we can absolve ourselves of any further duty of care.

As long as you insist they need to be cared for, you will find yourself having to care for them.

>Clean water is a basic Human right which we have ignored for far too long.

It's a civil/social right, not a basic one.

>the application of double standards when it comes to passing judgment on our peers.

There is only one standard, but it yields a spectrum of possible values of achievement, not a simple pass/fail (perfection being unattainable).

Get used to the idea that people can look up to the ethical and moral standards they strive to attain, and also down at those below.  We emphatically are not on the same plane, or even - in some cases - within orders of magnitude.

 

[a_majoor]

To majoor, you cannot claim innocence, nor can you ignore your duty of care to the people you serve. Irrespective of your familial history, as a Canadian in the service of your country you cannot neglect your share of the burden.

Strangely enough, the people I serve (i.e. the Canadian taxpayer) place a very extreme and disproportionate burden on me and my fellow servicemembers. I accept an unlimited liability contract and volunteer to place myself in harms way in order to give other Canadians the opportunity to lives their lives in relative peace and order, but their response is to mostly ignore my hard work and sacrifices, and refuse to provide me and my peers with the appropriate resources to do the job.

If you want to cast blame, then I accuse them of not living up to their half of the deal: We put up with everything from sheer crap to mortal danger so they have the best possible opportunities to choose their lives in peace and good order; but they fail to take advantage of what we offer!

So don't tell me what my share of the burden is, if you want to help, get in here and put YOUR shoulder to the wheel.

 

[AoD71]

Strangely enough, the people I serve (i.e. the Canadian taxpayer) place a very extreme and disproportionate burden on me and my fellow servicemembers. I accept an unlimited liability contract and volunteer to place myself in harms way in order to give other Canadians the opportunity to lives their lives in relative peace and order, but their response is to mostly ignore my hard work and sacrifices, and refuse to provide me and my peers with the appropriate resources to do the job.

If you want to cast blame, then I accuse them of not living up to their half of the deal: We put up with everything from sheer crap to mortal danger so they have the best possible opportunities to choose their lives in peace and good order; but they fail to take advantage of what we offer!

So don't tell me what my share of the burden is, if you want to help, get in here and put YOUR shoulder to the wheel.

You're definately right, and I'm sure everyone else here agrees.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

You're definately right, and I'm sure everyone else here agrees.

All but one it seems.

 

[AoD71]

Ahhhhh... right  :blotto:

 

[Jungle]

You're definately right, and I'm sure everyone else here agrees.

Or, as Jack Nicholson said:

"You live under the blanket of freedom in which I provide, and then question the way in which I provide it. I would rather you say thank you, and went on your way.  Otherwise I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post".
Jack Nicholson, A few good men

There is a difference between people living under a dictatorship where human rights are deliberately abused, and people living in a developped, industrialized country who are unable to take control over their own situation.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Is it just me, or has Iran felt the need to become the world's latest and greatest **** disturber?

Making crazy claims about annihilating israel, defying the UN and building nuclear weapons (not officially proven, but come on) and telling Canada it abuses human rights.

What the hell is their problem?

 

[Wolfe]

Is it just me, or has Iran felt the need to become the world's latest and greatest **** disturber?

Making crazy claims about annihilating Israel, defying the UN and building nuclear weapons (not officially proven, but come on) and telling Canada it abuses human rights.

What the heck is their problem?

I wished that i can explain it to you, but i can't, its a public forum, but i am sure you know why most countries of the middle east hates everybody else....so make up your own mind and you will understand what i mean....

I hope no one thought I was busting on Canada, I wasn't....!

Never crossed my mind that you were busting Canada, i love Americans, i think you do a really great job, Keep on soldiering !



Wolf 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ahhhhh... right   :blotto:

If you've got nothing solid or worthwhile to provide to this, or any other, thread, please refrain from posting your punative comments.

 

[Infanteer]

I was going to add something, but Brad Sallows' post basically covered the ground.  Nobody is saying that Canada is perfect, but Iran using it as an excuse to cover their ass and to imprison and beat Canadian citizens to death is not acceptable.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Canada violates human rights?

In Iran, they still execute people by stoning them to death. Yes, they have all the grounds to call us abusers of humanity.

 

[1feral1]

Iran, the same country who recently had over a MILLION people in the streets of Tehran condemming Israel and the west, demanding their complete destruction (us, whether you like it or not).

Frankly this scares me, and lets hope they do not get any further in nuclear power, if so, it will have to be rendered 'innocouous' sooner or later.

Pretty scarey stuff, that we can all admit. I would not even blink if the sun rose twice tomorrow morning in Iran. That whole place is a powder caig, and the fuse has been lit. Its just a matter of time before it goes off.

In my opinion, the west (yes again thats us), is in for a bumpy ride for many years to come.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Iran, the same country who recently had over a MILLION people in the streets of Tehran condemming Israel and the west, demanding their complete destruction (us, whether you like it or not).

Frankly this scares me, and lets hope they do not get any further in nuclear power, if so, it will have to be rendered 'innocouous' sooner or later.

Pretty scarey stuff, that we can all admit. I would not even blink if the sun rose twice tomorrow morning in Iran. That whole place is a powder caig, and the fuse has been lit. Its just a matter of time before it goes off.

In my opinion, the west (yes again thats us), is in for a bumpy ride for many years to come.

Cheers,

Wes

I felt that a year or two ago when Iran first started talking about its nuclear program, and refused to provide evidence that it was only in the name of a power source, coupled with the comments like you said, destroying the west etc, its abilities to produce weapons should have been nuetralized immediately.

Why does no one like to end a problem before it starts anymore? Iran has all the gas and oil power it could ever need, and all of a sudden it requires nuclear power huh? Oh and Israel needs to be wiped off the map? Give me a break, I sincerely hope the UN is making alot of progress on this issue... progress towards telling Iran to shut it down, or it will be shut down.

Iran has it coming, and id rather see it sooner as opposed to later when they are nuclear capable and selling weapons to terrorists to bomb cities in the west and then have a good laugh about it later.

I always thought that Iran would make more sense to me to disarm and disable as opposed to Iraq... they seemed like a bigger threat to me, but I guess GW had something personal against Saddam... regardless, he's gone now, and after all that fuss in Iraq over WMDs, Iran is almost admittidly building them, and the UN if they still possess any sanity, should agree, and I find it unlikely it would be difficult to find any substancial proof of this, as opposed to Iraq. I wonder if the US has to guts to make those accusations all over again, after being dead wrong about Iraq?

"No no trust me, this time for sure!"

 

[S McKee]

Unfortunately my main assertion was overlooked as per usual. We are not saints, nor are we in any position to expect such a judgment. As I stated it is an extreme accusation but not completely unfounded.

If you'd like I can bring up more examples as there are many to be found within our countries history. Dumping in the Arctic, examples like the ongoing permission of Kiddy-fiddling in places like Bountiful, B.C., Residential school abuses, exploitation of Natural resources without due compensation a la Northwest territories or the despised NEP. The list is long and most certainly not lost in the annals of history.

I am well aware of the issues faced by Canadians of all colours and it must be accepted that we have commited our fair share of abuses and mistakes over the years. We must not shirk our duty to the marginalized of this country.

To majoor, you cannot claim innocence, nor can you ignore your duty of care to the people you serve. Irrespective of your familial history, as a Canadian in the service of your country you cannot neglect your share of the burden.

It is reprehensible for us to assume that since we throw money at the First Nations, we can absolve ourselves of any further duty of care. Clean water is a basic Human right which we have ignored for far too long.

On a personal level, as a civilian in attendance both prior to, during, and after the Oka crisis, I can say that the CF acted quite well but it begs the question. Where was the Federal government  in the lead up to this situation? Oka was a problem well before it hit the Media headlines.

There has been a shift at the Federal level towards more assertion of the Canadian opinion and as such we need to recognize our own fallacies, the most important being the application of double standards when it comes to passing judgment on our peers.

Human rights are basic and inalienable. We cannot assert our views without being held accountable to our own actions.

BTW PAra, I never made that assertion. All I said was we cannot hold ourselves above criticism as unfounded or historically inaccurate as it may be.

edit: added link to Minister Axworthy's speech http//:www.cdp-hrc.uottawa.ca/publicat/bull35.html

Ah my young (NDP) padawan, I have deduced from reading your last few posts that your training in the ways of (the Canadian) Force is complete. Jedi Master Axworthy has taught you well. However, you would do well to remember the ominous words of Dark Helmet "Evil will always triumph... because good is dumb [and awfuly friggin naive]."