Iran Super Thread- Merged

[armrdsoul77]

Mute if you dont want to hear his forearm breaking

 

[Brad Sallows]

Yep. One. And depending on what time it is, the White House will or won’t say they had to go in because Bibi allegedly forced their hand.

Yes, just one. Pity they had to settle for one that is militarily powerful and competent and unafraid to act, instead of one that is much caressed in the halls of the UN for its moral posturing.

 

[Kilted]

Mute if you dont want to hear his forearm breaking

His lack of reaction to his arm breaking like that makes me wonder what he might have been using prior to this incident.

 

[Lumber]

I see the Belgrano-esq hand wringing has begun.

I’m rather surprised and disappointed that you’d frame sympathy for dead sailors as hand-wringing and sanctimony. One of the few constants of naval warfare has been the professional respect sailors show for those who share the same risks at sea, even when they’re fighting each other. Besides, this doesn't compare to the Belgrano. She was a credible threat, while the Dena almost two thousand miles away and entirely not a threat.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’m rather surprised and disappointed that you’d frame sympathy for dead sailors as hand-wringing and sanctimony. One of the few constants of naval warfare has been the professional respect sailors show for those who share the same risks at sea, even when they’re fighting each other. Besides, this doesn't compare to the Belgrano. She was a credible threat, while the Dena almost two thousand miles away and entirely not a threat.

I think you're looking at history through rose colored glasses.

While there are examples of humanity shown after battles are fought, the battles themselves are as savage and unforgiving as any other.

The one point in this situation where I would question the submarines actions, as an absolute nonSME, is what they did post attack. Did they stop and offer aid to any survivors, send out a distress signal to the Sri Lankan Navy ? I don't know, and I don't what the SOP is for the USN Submarine service in that scenario. Are they even allowed too do that ? Or is that a thing of the past ?

I think any ship you find that belongs to your enemy is a credible threat and should be dealt with, no matter the location.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No one in the Gulf is shedding a tear for Iran. Most just don’t want to pay the butchers bill.

I’m actually surprised to hear Jordan hasn’t joined the air war as they have some scores to settle in Iran.

Iran had to be dealt with and its been coming 40 years. Some are just upset about who is doing it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Im sure this is all just political positioning for CUSMA but offff.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2029390627197055057

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I’m rather surprised and disappointed that you’d frame sympathy for dead sailors as hand-wringing and sanctimony. One of the few constants of naval warfare has been the professional respect sailors show for those who share the same risks at sea, even when they’re fighting each other. Besides, this doesn't compare to the Belgrano. She was a credible threat, while the Dena almost two thousand miles away and entirely not a threat.

I think you're looking at history through rose colored glasses.

While there are examples of humanity shown after battles are fought, the battles themselves are as savage and unforgiving as any other.

The one point in this situation where I would question the submarines actions, as an absolute nonSME, is what they did post attack. Did they stop and offer aid to any survivors, send out a distress signal to the Sri Lankan Navy ? I don't know, and I don't what the SOP is for the USN Submarine service in that scenario. Are they even allowed too do that ? Or is that a thing of the past ?

I think any ship you find that belongs to your enemy is a credible threat and should be dealt with, no matter the location.

There is truth in both of these statements, as far as I am concerned, but also factual errors.

Respect between sailors is a thing, but as pointed out: in war, it comes after the battle. And assistance from submarines in those situations pretty much died with WWII as it became clear to all nations that the very limited capabilities to provide assistance of a submarine were overwhelmed even from helping the small crew of a merchant vessel.

On the other hand, there are no comparison here with the situation of the ARA General Belgrano. The Belgrano, as has been established, sailed under war orders. It was part of Argentinian Task Force 79 (79.3 to be exact) and was to participate with the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo (79.1)(aircraft carrier) into a pincer movement to catch the British fleet off guard. For various reasons, one being the weather, the attack was first delayed, then scratched altogether. At that point, the Belgrano was only about 35 nautical miles outside of the TEZ and had been proceeding towards it. When it turned around to proceed back towards Argentina, there was no way for the British to know the operation was over or if it was a feint leading to a return. They sank her. The Belgrano knew damn well it was a legitimate target. The real criminals here, if any, are the Argentinian admirals who let a WWII ship and a weak escort without modern ASW capability participate in an operation against a nation with nuclear submarines.

The situation with the Iranian frigate, IMHO, is more akin to Vichy France early days. First of all, the Americans and Israeli are NOT calling this a war, but a "special" military operation, whatever that may mean. However, they did say no boots on the ground (until after the sinking anyway) and have limited announced aims (even though they keep changing and God knows what they are). So you don't then go sinking ships thousands of kilometers away, who probably don't have any reason to think they are a target and are not a threat to your operation, without a warning. That warning doesn't have to come from the submarine. Just like the British gave a chance to the French fleet in Algeria to disable itself or switch side, the US could knowing Iranian warships way out of zone were about could have issued them with prior notice that they should shelter in any port that will have them for internment or face the consequences. Then they would have been warned and fair game.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There is truth in both of these statements, as far as I am concerned, but also factual errors.

Respect between sailors is a thing, but as pointed out: in war, it comes after the battle. And assistance from submarines in those situations pretty much died with WWII as it became clear to all nations that the very limited capabilities to provide assistance of a submarine were overwhelmed even from helping the small crew of a merchant vessel.

On the other hand, there are no comparison here with the situation of the ARA General Belgrano. The Belgrano, as has been established, sailed under war orders. It was part of Argentinian Task Force 79 (79.3 to be exact) and was to participate with the ARA Veinticinco de Mayo (79.1)(aircraft carrier) into a pincer movement to catch the British fleet off guard. For various reasons, one being the weather, the attack was first delayed, then scratched altogether. At that point, the Belgrano was only about 35 nautical miles outside of the TEZ and had been proceeding towards it. When it turned around to proceed back towards Argentina, there was no way for the British to know the operation was over or if it was a feint leading to a return. They sank her. The Belgrano knew damn well it was a legitimate target. The real criminals here, if any, are the Argentinian admirals who let a WWII ship and a weak escort without modern ASW capability participate in an operation against a nation with nuclear submarines.

I agree the ARA Belgrano was a legitimate target for HMS Conqueror. But there was and is debate about its legitimacy, even within the UK Gov at the time. And no one these forums is has the last word on this matter.

The situation with the Iranian frigate, IMHO, is more akin to Vichy France early days. First of all, the Americans and Israeli are NOT calling this a war, but a "special" military operation, whatever that may mean. However, they did say no boots on the ground (until after the sinking anyway) and have limited announced aims (even though they keep changing and God knows what they are). So you don't then go sinking ships thousands of kilometers away, who probably don't have any reason to think they are a target and are not a threat to your operation, without a warning. That warning doesn't have to come from the submarine. Just like the British gave a chance to the French fleet in Algeria to disable itself or switch side, the US could knowing Iranian warships way out of zone were about could have issued them with prior notice that they should shelter in any port that will have them for internment or face the consequences. Then they would have been warned and fair game.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"
Romeo and Juliet (Act II, Scene II)

The US has blasted the Iranian Navy's major combatants into scrap metal. What more signal to stay in port do you need ?

Pretending a target stops being a target after more XX miles away from home is an interesting way to prosecute a war/special operation/conflict/fight use your verbiage of choice.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Im sure this is all just political positioning for CUSMA but offff.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2029390627197055057

Walking a bit of a tightrope - damned if he rejects the U.S. in a way that pisses POTUS47 & Co. off, damned if he sucks up in a way that pisses some/more than a few Canadians off.

Meanwhile, more on the Kurds the U.S. is supporting for now ....

Iran says thwarted ‘separatist’ incursion from Kurdistan Region border

Neither forces belonging to Iranian Kurdish opposition parties, nor people from Iraq’s Kurdistan Region, have crossed borders into Iran for a ground offensive, multiple sources confirmed to The New Region on Thursday.

thenewregion.com

Iran targets Kurdish groups in Iraq, begins wave of attacks on Israel

Iranian Kurdish armed groups have reportedly consulted with the US in recent days about whether to attack Iran.

www.aljazeera.com

... while one of the neighbours keeps an eye out:

Turkey Monitors PJAK Militant Activities Amid Regional Tensions

Read more about Turkey Monitors PJAK Militant Activities Amid Regional Tensions on Devdiscourse.

www.devdiscourse.com

Türkiye closely monitors Kurdish separatist PJAK in Iran, says defense ministry - Türkiye Today

The Ministry of National Defense states that it is monitoring PJAK activities in Iran, reaffirming its support for the territorial integrity of neighboring states

www.turkiyetoday.com

For reference, these guys (part of the new Kurdish Koalition) ....

Kurdistan Free Life Party - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

... seems to have links to these guys, who Turkey considers quite bad guys ....

Kurdistan Workers' Party - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

... to the point of (at least allegedly) having helped IRN root them out late last year:

Türkiye Provided PKK/PJAK Intelligence to Iran During the Israeli Attack - Yetkin Report

Güler drew a connection between the Israel–Iran attacks, the PKK and its Iranian wing PJAK, and the “Terror-Free Türkiye” process.

yetkinreport.com

And this from ISW from overnight:

Iran Update Evening Special Report, March 4, 2026

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) conducted multiple strikes at several military compounds in southeastern Tehran on March 4.

understandingwar.org

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Pretending a target stops being a target after more XX miles away from home is an interesting way to prosecute a war/special operation/conflict/fight use your verbiage of choice.

It's not my verbiage. It's the US government verbiage - and if it means nothing, then don't use it.

When a US destroyer sailing out of Norfolk on a training exercise blows up on a mine (left there innocently by a small fishing vessel proceeding to sea without being noticed) next week, killing a few hundred sailors, remember that they were a legitimate target.

 

[QV]

Pretty sure Iran considered US personnel anywhere anytime a legit target for the last 47 years.

 

[QV]

America’s great at killing people and breaking their stuff. Nobody here is contesting that. For some people that’s enough, with no further thought to the long game required to declare things ‘good’.

Historically they’ve just been pretty bad at building something more geopolitically stable in the place of what they tear down. They’ve had a tendency to either knock down pretty shitty but relatively stable authoritarian regimes and have more more killing and sundry awfulness as a result, or to deliver a military spanking but leave in place a still tyrannical but now more desperate regime. Gulf War 91, Saddam stayed in power and committed more atrocity. Afghanistan, we went in to pound the piss out of the Taliban and kill Al-Qaeda, did some of both, but couldn’t actually settle on strategic objectives for the long run. ended up losing and the Taliban are back in charge. Gulf War 2: Electric Boogaloo ended Saddam but directly led to the massive vacuum that permitted the rise of ISIS and everything that entailed. Venezuela, thus far they’ve left the exact same regime in place save for the one top boss. Iran so far, lots of folks dead but the same regime that slaughtered probably tens of thousands a couple months ago remains in place and the strategic objectives remain muddled- can’t say they’re baking the same cake, but the list of ingredients looks a lot like 2003.

But yeah, sure, things are going great. If you ignore the dead US troops, a couple billion dollars of destroyed radars, the freight and oil companies that won’t sail Hormuz, the massive spike in natural gas prices, the smashed up AWS data centers that keeping eating drones across the gulf, the burned out apartment tower in Bahrain, the various and sundry dead civilians across the Emirates and gulf states, and the massive depletion of U.S. and allies missile stocks that kinda might be needed elsewhere.

Iran will definitely come out of this more peaceful and stable and not at all motivated to cause more problems in future after they dig some much deeper holes to build stuff in.

Maybe they should have convened instead.

 

[brihard]

A few miscellaneous news bits from overnight:

An allegedly Iranian drone or drones struck an airport in Azerbaijan, marking further spread of this war.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2029472689555947842

Not to say it implies motive, but Azerbaijan and the Caucasus have become a very important and crowded air route threading the needle between the Ukraine and Iran wars:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2029515788986486947

Australian news reports two Royal Australian Navy members on exchange are onboard the attack submarine that sank the Iranian frigate. We can expect this to stir some further controversy over the sinking. Here at home I don’t think we’ve yet heard the last about CAF members on exchange in operationally relevant roles.

Australian sailors on board US submarine when it torpedoed Iranian warship

9News understands the Australians are on board the American submarine as part of the AUKUS training rotatio...

www.9news.com.au

China is feeling the squeeze in oil markets. Oil futures on Chinese exchanges have spiked, and they’ve ordered a halt to gasoline and diesel exports. China is Iran’s largest export customer for oil and I think we can expect China to get more vocal on this war soon.

China Halts Diesel, Gasoline Exports As Paralyzed Hormuz Risks Energy Shock <!-- --> | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[brihard]

Maybe they should have convened instead.

I’d be happy to see your thinking on the geopolitical/strategic situation here and to give it a read.

 

[OldSolduer]

War should be the last option. I recall the days where the Shah was overthrown, the American Embassy violated and hostages taken. I recall the debacle of Desert One and how the US started taking the threat seriously and developed the Spec Ops we see now.
For 47 years this regime has been sowing discord and hate. Diplomatic efforts failed time and time again. This had to happen.

I do mourn for the loss of life of ordinary people.
I do not mourn for the elimination of key leaders and the leaders of the IRGC.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Im sure this is all just political positioning for CUSMA but offff.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2029390627197055057

From your perspective, how should he have answered this question?

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Maybe they should have convened instead.

Not sure what you mean by this? Convened what? With whom? And to what purpose?

 

[GK .Dundas]

Not sure what you mean by this? Convened what? With whom? And to what purpose?

Exactly !