Go read about Operation Ajax and the subsequent fallout from that.
The US is a big reason why that Regime exists.
Iran Super Thread- Merged
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The US is a big reason why that Regime exists.
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Do you have anything positive at all to say about the CAF, or in fact Canada? I suppose that leading the MNB in Latvia is a colossal waste of time / demonstration of Canada's complete uselessness? FOM operations in SE Asia?
I can't remember if you are still serving, but if you are, it must be hard to find the motivation, (other than financial) for you to go to work every day.
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That part is indisputable.
Phase 5 is hard, and I have the scars to prove it from deployments with the US (one NATO, the others not) in three theatres that struggled with planning and executing the what next part of operations. My time in the Pentagon also allowed me a close up view of the planning, process, culture, etc.
So based on my experience, absent any clearly defined objectives post "smash it all without stupid rules of engagement", this war of choice is likely to have the same outcomes
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And how would that best serve the nation's interests? What geopolitical objectives would saying no advance?Call it want you want its a violent conflict.
As I said previously that's a legitimate target. People in the Navy have to wrap their heads around the fact we are first and foremost a war fighting organization. Everything else is secondary.
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What did Jean Chretien say when the US wanted us to go into Iraq ? What did he say about Canadian Gov support for the invasion of Iraq ?
Imagine if Trudeau would have said no fucking way, closing that door, and confining Canada's options in the coming months? Would you have supported that?
KevinB
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Military yes, but that doesn’t apply to geopolitical. That is the realm of Foggy Bottom (Department of State).
I have much less faith in that, based on a lot of personal experience, and public examples for decades.
The Military side is a part of the equation, but the majority of issues that I think most here have concerns about aren’t specifically related to that.
Both Iraq and Afghanistan had the best leadership options cut out before a new government could be formed.
Sept 10 2001 saw ‘The Lion of Pansjir’ Ahmad Shah Massoud killed by AlQ as part of the deal with the Taliban for sanctuary.
In Iraq the Grand Ayatollah Majid al-Khoei was hacked to death by a crowd of Al Sadr’s forces in Najaf in 2003.
Halifax Tar
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Is there anything more geopolitically beneficial than a sovereign nation acting like a sovereign nation ?
Now we're playing alternate history or SciFi I like it. I'm going to need to convene about that for a while in introspection while I contemplate whipping out a 6 pack of F18s.
I've never said that I think Canada should or shouldn't get involved in Iran. But I am sure the LPC base will love it if Carney weeble wabbles us into sending us over to secure better positioning for CUSMA.
I think its pretty obvious the US really doesn't care if we approve or participate.
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Show me how we are not acting like a sovereign nation. The GoC has refused to be drawn into deciding on a key issue by a reporter posing a hypothetical in a foreign country? That sounds like the act of a sovereign country to me. You know. Making decisions one one's own terms in pursuit of national objectives.
Speaking of hypotheticals, if the CPC was governing right now, what should the answer of been? Hell no?
Any thoughts on the potential second and third order effects of saying hell no? NORAD anyone? Punitive tariffs? Etc?
Can you identify any positive geopolitical benefits (and follow on effects) that would reaped by saying Hell No, in what others have reminded us is the first week of this war?
I'm not sure this is the kind of thing that gets a people to rise up.
Trump says he needs to be involved in selecting Iran's next leader, Axios reports
U.S. President Donald Trump told Axios on Thursday that he needs to be personally involved in selecting Iran's next leader.www.reuters.com
Yeah that may not have a net beneficial effect on the attitudes of the Iranian people…
Win the battle. Lose the war.
This is not a minor detail. Iran was emboldened by the US failing to create a stable country in Iraq. A failing that was a deliberate result of their ignorance, notably the American policy of "de-Baathification" that massively fueled the insurgency there (fueled by a tens to hundred of thousands of suddenly unemployed ex-military, police, etc). This then led to ISIS and subsequently massive resource draws that basically made it impossible to win in Afghanistan.
Where would the US be today if they hadn't f'd up in Iraq? Afghanistan might have gone better. They'd have trillions less in debt. Iran would have to perpetually worry about both a hostile Iraq and a strong US, possibly with bases next door in Afghanistan. ISIS wouldn't have happened. Most importantly they would have substantially more flexibilixity for the strategic competition with China.
Amazing to me that after all these years, poor American choices are handwaved away. And the blame for these states to regain stability is attributed to them and their "culture". Maybe if they're so incapable of doing the nation building part, they shouldn't get into wars that will inevitably require them to nation build? Just a thought. They can easily destroy Iran's military capabilities without resorting to a desire to commit regime change.
I don't even like the regime. Their history is ghastly. But I don't see this as leading to anything but a worse net outcome for anybody but the strategic rivals of the US.
You have been at least up to this point very much against spending any blood and treasure on foreign entanglements.
Doesn't help if the State Dept (and equivalents in other governments) are treated as optional niceties. Didn't Rubio cull a whole bunch?
I'm not sure this is the kind of thing that gets a people to rise up.
Trump says he needs to be involved in selecting Iran's next leader, Axios reports
U.S. President Donald Trump told Axios on Thursday that he needs to be personally involved in selecting Iran's next leader.
Every day these guys are really proving the trope of ignorant Westerners trying to rule from afar. The more he talks the less likely he's making regime change.
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THIS is what should have happened with the Dena.
OldSolduer
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I am not against sending troops into harms way, but neither am I for it.
IF the GoC decides it needs to send troops in any capacity, they better be properly equipped and led. The CDS and others have to make theat very clear.
Adding: We sent a brigade to Hong Kong that were ill prepared and it cost Canada. I do not want to see that repeated.
IF the GoC decides it needs to send troops in any capacity, they better be properly equipped and led. The CDS and others have to make theat very clear.
Adding: We sent a brigade to Hong Kong that were ill prepared and it cost Canada. I do not want to see that repeated.
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I wasn't opining as to whether the Americans would need or want our help, rather it was a retort to the implication that nothing Canada has could be of value to the Americans in this contest.
Halifax Tar
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Important detail.
What decision has been made ? It sounds like typical weeble wabbling to me.
If we have categorically come out and said yes or no I honestly missed that.
I'm not playing what if games. I believe I alluded to that above.
We said no in 2003 and survived second and third order effects. And we had a strong economy before Free trade.
I doubt we'd register. A nasty tweet maybe ? Or what ever you call a post on Truth Social.
I dunno maybe we will get to find out.
Sure. Why though?
Quirky
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Should I start paying for rent? I seem to be living free in your head.
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What if the US Doesn't care about anything but winning the battle?
The war - is a foreign entanglement. There seems to be little appetite for boots on the ground, but there's all kinds of aircraft and bombs and missiles being sent down range (and torpedoes.)
Win the battle(s) - destroy Iran's ability to project power and cause them to be focused for the next few years on internal rebuilding.
Problem is - what does that rebuild look like? Topple the current regime (still a maybe...?) and what will rise in its place? Will it be better?
The war - is a foreign entanglement. There seems to be little appetite for boots on the ground, but there's all kinds of aircraft and bombs and missiles being sent down range (and torpedoes.)
Win the battle(s) - destroy Iran's ability to project power and cause them to be focused for the next few years on internal rebuilding.
Problem is - what does that rebuild look like? Topple the current regime (still a maybe...?) and what will rise in its place? Will it be better?
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Well, maybe not in the current messaging of POTUS47 & Co., but given this tidbit ...
... hard to blame Biden, the woke left, or DEI if a new regime boss if the new regime boss POTUS47 was involved in picking delivered sub-optimal results.I'm not sure this is the kind of thing that gets a people to rise up.
Trump says he needs to be involved in selecting Iran's next leader, Axios reports
U.S. President Donald Trump told Axios on Thursday that he needs to be personally involved in selecting Iran's next leader.
