Iran Super Thread- Merged

[KevinB]

Kevin, the Brits, French and Israeli's tried to go it alone with Suez and the US made it very much apparent to the 3 of them that the US thought they were offside and were pissed off that the US was completely kept in the dark before the war started - sounds familiar doesn't it?

ah yes the Suez, it was going so well too wasn’t it? Given France was accorded a seat at the table and a slice of Berlin really went to CdG’s head. Given America had troops in Greece and elsewhere in Europe actively fighting communists, and heavily involved in Africa and the Middle East filling the void France and the UK had left, one can hardly wonder why the US was upset at the decision of the British and French to act without consultation.

The US's reaction to the Suez was a major factor in De Gaulle's decision to pull out of NATO.

Let’s ignore CdG’s ego and his utter disregard for the English speaking countries that liberated France, he didn’t really think that one through.

I’m on record multiple times that I think the planning and execution of the Iranian ‘war’ is awful. Pretty sure a PTE in QL3 Inf could figure out that it was not thought through at high levels and support and assistance was way too low to attempt at that point in time.

The French to be able to maintain whatever 'freedom of action, freedom of movement' that they were still able to independently achieve. Their almost total ability to still act in their 'best interests' throughout the former French colonies in Africa is a perfect example of this.

Those countries decrease at alarming rates each year.


Again, my point is solely about how does one go from where the situation stands today, to a situation that doesn’t see Iran a a major exporter of terror, and a threat to both the global economy and world food security.

I think we can agree that the US/ISR route isn’t going to see that through. So then what?

 

[Brad Sallows]

We made a choice not to follow them into Vietnam or Panama or Dominica Republic or Grenada or Iraq or Cuba over the years because they didn't align with Canada's policies at the time.

Was Canada even invited to participate in all of those? We can't claim "didn't follow" if following was never an option.

 

[KevinB]

Was Canada even invited to participate in all of those? We can't claim "didn't follow" if following was never an option.

Only Iraq x2, which Canada declined to send Conventional Forces to.

 

[Czech_pivo]

ah yes the Suez, it was going so well too wasn’t it? Given France was accorded a seat at the table and a slice of Berlin really went to CdG’s head. Given America had troops in Greece and elsewhere in Europe actively fighting communists, and heavily involved in Africa and the Middle East filling the void France and the UK had left, one can hardly wonder why the US was upset at the decision of the British and French to act without consultation.

The US was 'filling the void' in Africa/Asia that they themselves pushed onto the Brits/French by doing all that they could to ensure that the de-Colonization process was rushed forward as quick as possible. How much of that rapid/rushed removal of British/France influence lead to direct increases in the spread of Communism or Civil War?

Let’s ignore CdG’s ego and his utter disregard for the English speaking countries that liberated France, he didn’t really think that one through.

No he was no fan of the US or the UK, certainly agree on this

I’m on record multiple times that I think the planning and execution of the Iranian ‘war’ is awful. Pretty sure a PTE in QL3 Inf could figure out that it was not thought through at high levels and support and assistance was way too low to attempt at that point in time.

100% agreement

Those countries decrease at alarming rates each year.

Yes, true again, but its taken 75+yrs for this to occur. They are still the dominant 'power' throughout large parts of Africa.

Again, my point is solely about how does one go from where the situation stands today, to a situation that doesn’t see Iran a a major exporter of terror, and a threat to both the global economy and world food security.

Were they a threat to both the global economy and world food security on the 25th of Feb 2026?

I think we can agree that the US/ISR route isn’t going to see that through. So then what?

No clue. Currently Trump would never allow any coalition or coalition partners to have 'equality' with the US in terms of decision making, policy direction, communication upon the world stage or world admiration if any outcome is successful.

In terms of a Coalition forming outside of the US and Israel and attempting to 'go it alone' in creating a solution to the current problem - that would NEVER happen, neither Trump nor Bibi could afford to allow it to happen. If the Iranians are now making Trump look weak, just imagine how fragile he's ego would be if a Coalition comprising of 'weak' Europeans, Canada, South Korea, Japan, Australia, India achieved the effective reopening of the G of H and ensured free, consistent, safe freedom of navigation.

 

[OldSolduer]

Was Canada even invited to participate in all of those? We can't claim "didn't follow" if following was never an option.

The USA declined to inform Canada about Grenada and PET IIRC was mightily offended at this.

PET did not like anything military- I think he hated the US military more than our own.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Was Canada even invited to participate in all of those? We can't claim "didn't follow" if following was never an option.

With 100% certainty the US wanted - asked - Canada to participate in Vietnam

 

[Czech_pivo]

Only Iraq x2, which Canada declined to send Conventional Forces to.

Disagree - Vietnam - the US wanted and asked (behind the curtain) for us to participate.

 

[ytz]

And Iraq 2003. Well known that Canada was asked. Even to make a token contribution to help legitimize the war. Chretien turned Bush down after the Canadian weapons inspectors said they were confident there was no WMD. How our Int Community reached their conclusions is actually the subject of much study. And even a fascination for the Americans who got it wrong.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-intelligence-assessments-of-saddam-s-iraq-got-it-right-new-paper-says-1.5697028

How Canada’s intelligence agencies helped keep the country out of the 2003 Iraq war - Open Canada

Canadian analysts had access to the same information about Iraq’s supposed weapons of mass destruction program as their American counterparts but came to different conclusions.

opencanada.org

And I knew folks who worked at CDI in that era. It was quite testy with American exchanges who really wanted to see Canada sign on.

 

[daftandbarmy]

And Iraq 2003. Well known that Canada was asked. Even to make a token contribution to help legitimize the war. Chretien turned Bush down after the Canadian weapons inspectors said they were confident there was no WMD. How our Int Community reached their conclusions is actually the subject of much study. And even a fascination for the Americans who got it wrong.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-intelligence-assessments-of-saddam-s-iraq-got-it-right-new-paper-says-1.5697028

How Canada’s intelligence agencies helped keep the country out of the 2003 Iraq war - Open Canada

Canadian analysts had access to the same information about Iraq’s supposed weapons of mass destruction program as their American counterparts but came to different conclusions.

opencanada.org

And I knew folks who worked at CDI in that era. It was quite testy with American exchanges who really wanted to see Canada sign on.

I am proud to be a member of the 'Axis of Weasels' in that particular case

ScrappleFace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Jarnhamar]

See Afghanistan for recent precedent of the US simply throwing partners (in that case local Afghans) to the wolves.

I wouldn't say thrown to the wolves. The Afghans couldn't figure out how to deal with the wolves on their own after 18 - 19 years of continuous training, mentoring, and advising.

 

[HavokFour]

To quote one of Junji Ito's many iconic works:

"This is my hole! It was made for me!"

Shell CEO says oil market is short nearly 1 billion barrels due to Iran war, and the hole deepens every day

The oil market hopes the U.S. and Iran will strike a deal that could reopen the Strait of Hormuz and restore energy shipments.

www.cnbc.com

EDIT: Also worth noting, but the last California bound oil shipment from the Persian Gulf before this all kicked off arrived stateside the other day. California gets 30% of it's crude from the region.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If the Iranians are now making Trump look weak, just imagine how fragile he's ego would be if a Coalition comprising of 'weak' Europeans, Canada, South Korea, Japan, Australia, India achieved the effective reopening of the G of H and ensured free, consistent, safe freedom of navigation.

Yet he invited anyone who cared to do so.

Too much taking-counsel-of-fears of everything from military defeat to mere humiliation is paralyzing non-US countries.

 

[Czech_pivo]

And Iraq 2003. Well known that Canada was asked. Even to make a token contribution to help legitimize the war. Chretien turned Bush down after the Canadian weapons inspectors said they were confident there was no WMD. How our Int Community reached their conclusions is actually the subject of much study. And even a fascination for the Americans who got it wrong.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-intelligence-assessments-of-saddam-s-iraq-got-it-right-new-paper-says-1.5697028

How Canada’s intelligence agencies helped keep the country out of the 2003 Iraq war - Open Canada

Canadian analysts had access to the same information about Iraq’s supposed weapons of mass destruction program as their American counterparts but came to different conclusions.

opencanada.org

And I knew folks who worked at CDI in that era. It was quite testy with American exchanges who really wanted to see Canada sign on.

2 words.

Yellow Cake

Enough said.