PrairieFella
Sr. Member
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Joe Biden Pardons his son
- Thread starter Remius
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He should absolutely preemptively pardon those various officials who have been named as targets for vindictive investigation and prosecution. Jack Smith, Fauci, Justice and health sector employees who have served in good faith and who have likely attracted the ire of Trump himself or incoming senior administration figures. If a bunch of the guardrails are coming off January 20th, Biden can absolutely justify using his lingering executive authority to put protections in place if there isn’t existing knowledge of actual criminality. Specific intent has been communicated by various people who will be in positions of power or influence, so it’s not a hypothetical.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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If "get Trump" was OK, "get X" is OK. That shit doesn't go back in the horse. This is the point where the "if they have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to fear" crowd wants to eat their words now that they might be under the scope. Or is it the case that even an honest man has to fear, because he might have done something wrong without knowing or intending it or it could be played up to look that way, so maybe it would have been and would be better never to dig deep and wide on thin pretexts when political biases are in full view?
This would be another opportunity for Democrats to destroy another of the "norms" they keep pounding on. If Biden issues blanket pardons for administration officials, it will establish a new practice for future administrations.
Biden just blew a hole through the "party of rule of law" story Democrats tried to sell, and many Democratic political observers in the US already understand that. The rationalizations are amusing to behold.
QV
Army.ca Veteran
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I'm looking forward to the lineup of people looking for pre-emptive pardons.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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"The president has discussed pardoning his son with some of his closest aides at least since Hunter Biden’s conviction in June, said two people with direct knowledge of the discussions about the matter. They said it was decided at the time that he would publicly say he would not pardon his son even though doing so remained on the table."
Election politics and lies for political advantage all the way down.
Election politics and lies for political advantage all the way down.
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Except Trump did things that was investigated and processed through the courts, and is only not going to trial on things because he delayed it long enough to get re-elected.
Hunter Biden is a fuck up, and should have gone to prison for the things he plead guilty on as part of a plea deal, but then it got canceled due to partisan interference.
Public Servants like Fauci shouldn't need a pardon at all, but they are already being threatened by the unqualified clown shoes appointed to key positions. Give it a rest with your myopic hypocrisy and pretending the upcoming Trump administration is anything rational and wouldn't try and absolutely ruin people with the system because they have the authority to abuse (don't forget the threats to bypass normal appointment processes all together). Playing clean against someone playing dirty only works if there is a referee to reign them in, but they broke the Supreme Court as well.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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Trump and his associates were investigated at great length and breadth by a special counsel based on a few snippets of information - some manufactured by political opponents - that people took to suggest "Russian collusion". If weak pretexts are sufficient for investigations into people near the centre of presidential power, then investigate whenever weak pretexts are present. For example: inflows of millions of dollars to family members of a well-connected politician who have no obvious skills and services worth that kind of money.
Or don't, but don't give selected groups easy treatment.
He was going to get probation for the two misdemeanor tax charges and a deferral on the firearm. No prison. It got canceled because the judge wasn't going to accept the pig in the poke without understanding the details, and questioned terms of the agreement. At that point the prosecution and defence revealed they actually had different ideas about what might and might not be on the table in future, and the deal collapsed because of their disagreement.
Myopic hypocrisy includes the people who refuse to acknowledge that some of those who tried to take down Trump and his associates did not play a clean game.
Tinfoil.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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"at all" is an odd replacement for "if they've done nothing illegal".
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
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I warned way back when that going after Trump with lawfare was going to a Pandora's box that would come after the Dems.
Now it looks like its happening.
Im really not sure whose stupider the Dems or Republican's.
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
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This sums it up nicely 
President Biden’s complaint about the higher standard applied to his son reflects the perspective of myopic privilege. Crimes by family members of powerful public officials are far more damaging to public confidence than similar crimes by anonymous people. Holding them to account through strict enforcement of the law is good and correct.
What the president fails to note in his self-pitying statement is that Hunter Biden for years engaged in legal but wildly inappropriate behavior by running a business based on selling the perception of access to his father. The only commodity Hunter had to offer oligarchs in Ukraine, China, and elsewhere was the belief, or hope, that he could put in a good word for them with his dad.
Biden’s Unpardonable Hypocrisy
President Biden’s complaint about the higher standard applied to his son reflects the perspective of myopic privilege. Crimes by family members of powerful public officials are far more damaging to public confidence than similar crimes by anonymous people. Holding them to account through strict enforcement of the law is good and correct.
What the president fails to note in his self-pitying statement is that Hunter Biden for years engaged in legal but wildly inappropriate behavior by running a business based on selling the perception of access to his father. The only commodity Hunter had to offer oligarchs in Ukraine, China, and elsewhere was the belief, or hope, that he could put in a good word for them with his dad.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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For those interested, Jacob Sullum at Reason has many relevant points, particularly about Hunter being a "victim".
On how the penalties became severe:
"As a result, the probation sentence that the government was prepared to accept in 2023 became a potential prison sentence of up to 17 years.
Biden's actual sentences probably would have been much shorter than the maximums. But the dramatic escalation in potential penalties epitomized the "trial penalty" that helps explain why 97 percent of federal felony convictions are based on guilty pleas rather than proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court."
On political bias in the prosecution:
"In August 2023, Biden's attorney general, Merrick Garland, appointed Weiss as a special counsel charged with overseeing both cases against Hunter Biden.
That designation was aimed at preserving the prosecutorial independence that Joe Biden was keen to defend until last night, and Weiss' willingness to let Hunter Biden avoid incarceration belies any notion that he had it in for the president's son. In fact, that "sweetheart deal" provoked vigorous objections from Republicans who complained that Hunter Biden had benefited from political favoritism—the opposite of what his father claims."
On what triggered the discussion which led to the plea deal falling apart:
"Among other things, Noreika was concerned about a lack of clarity regarding Hunter Biden's immunity from future prosecution, the interaction between the plea deal and the diversion agreement, and the highly unusual role she would have had to play in deciding whether Biden had met the terms of the latter."
On the rarity of the firearm charges:
"One reason such cases are rarely prosecuted is that the government generally does not know which drug users are gun owners or vice versa. But Biden publicly admitted his drug use, and his acquisition of the revolver came to light as a result of a bizarre spat with his girlfriend. In that respect, he was very unlucky."
On one law for me, and another for thee:
"Notably, Biden sided with Weiss in this constitutional dispute, which pitted the president against his own son. The Biden administration has stubbornly defended Section 922(g)(3) in one case after another, specifically arguing that cannabis consumers are so untrustworthy and dangerous that the government is justified in threatening them with prison if they dare to exercise their Second Amendment rights.
President Biden not only supports that policy; he evidently thought the penalties that his son faced for violating it were not severe enough."
On how the penalties became severe:
"As a result, the probation sentence that the government was prepared to accept in 2023 became a potential prison sentence of up to 17 years.
Biden's actual sentences probably would have been much shorter than the maximums. But the dramatic escalation in potential penalties epitomized the "trial penalty" that helps explain why 97 percent of federal felony convictions are based on guilty pleas rather than proof beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal court."
On political bias in the prosecution:
"In August 2023, Biden's attorney general, Merrick Garland, appointed Weiss as a special counsel charged with overseeing both cases against Hunter Biden.
That designation was aimed at preserving the prosecutorial independence that Joe Biden was keen to defend until last night, and Weiss' willingness to let Hunter Biden avoid incarceration belies any notion that he had it in for the president's son. In fact, that "sweetheart deal" provoked vigorous objections from Republicans who complained that Hunter Biden had benefited from political favoritism—the opposite of what his father claims."
On what triggered the discussion which led to the plea deal falling apart:
"Among other things, Noreika was concerned about a lack of clarity regarding Hunter Biden's immunity from future prosecution, the interaction between the plea deal and the diversion agreement, and the highly unusual role she would have had to play in deciding whether Biden had met the terms of the latter."
On the rarity of the firearm charges:
"One reason such cases are rarely prosecuted is that the government generally does not know which drug users are gun owners or vice versa. But Biden publicly admitted his drug use, and his acquisition of the revolver came to light as a result of a bizarre spat with his girlfriend. In that respect, he was very unlucky."
On one law for me, and another for thee:
"Notably, Biden sided with Weiss in this constitutional dispute, which pitted the president against his own son. The Biden administration has stubbornly defended Section 922(g)(3) in one case after another, specifically arguing that cannabis consumers are so untrustworthy and dangerous that the government is justified in threatening them with prison if they dare to exercise their Second Amendment rights.
President Biden not only supports that policy; he evidently thought the penalties that his son faced for violating it were not severe enough."
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Jimmy Kimmel put it this way,
today.yougov.com
today.yougov.com
Do you approve or disapprove of Joe Biden's decision to pardon his son Hunter Biden? | Daily Question
Do you approve or disapprove of Joe Biden's decision to pardon his son Hunter Biden?
today.yougov.com
Do you approve or disapprove of Donald Trump's decision to pardon his son-in-law's father, Charles Kushner, in 2020? | Daily Question
Do you approve or disapprove of Donald Trump's decision to pardon his son-in-law's father, Charles Kushner, in 2020?
today.yougov.com
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I assumed the Democrats aspired to be better than Trump... Apparently they do, but only slightly. As long as they can point to something Trump did that was worse, whatever bad they do is absolutely fine with their supporters...
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Or, Dems are realizing that “when they go low, we go high” hasn’t worked so they’re now playing dirty. But not as dirty.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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The difference is Biden promising not to pardon his son; Biden's spokespeople echoing Biden's promise not to pardon his son; and all the media people who used Biden's promise to advance a political argument that the Democrats are the party which supports the rule of law and respects the courts and juries and whatnot. If they hadn't all dined out so long and with such gusto on that lie, "whatabout" might have a bit more purchase.
Another difference is that there aren't many people defending Trump's pardons of people with only a degree or two of separation from Trump. Web pages are full of various excuses for Biden.
Eaglelord17
Army.ca Veteran
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The whole pardon system in the US just makes a mockery of their justice system and is one of the most corrupt parts of their political system. There is often a strong correlation between who is pardoned and who has paid political donations.
Pages here too of people making excuses for Trump…
Don’t kid yourself. There are plenty of podcasts, web pages etc defending everything including pardons that Trump does.
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