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Kabul prison raid by Afghan Army

bossi

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It's a good sign if the new Afghan Army and police can start handling problems like this, without requiring ISAF (foreign) assistance all the time - it's a sign that they're getting back on their feet ...
(and, purely out of idle curiousity, I'd be interested to know whether the Afghan Army units involved were ones being trained by Canadians - but, I guess we'll have to wait for /edia/"open source" confirmation).

Afghan army storms siege prison

Declan Walsh in Islamabad - Saturday December 18, 2004 - The Guardian

Afghan soldiers stormed a notorious prison in Kabul last night, ending a 10-hour siege that left five prison guards and four inmates dead.
Just after nightfall, rockets and small-arms fire exploded around Pul-e-Charki, where four suspected al-Qaida militants had attempted a daring jail break as they were led to morning prayers.

The prisoners, three Pakistanis and an Iraqi, stabbed a prison guard to death with razors, seized his gun and shot another three guards. A gun battle broke out, killing two of the four prisoners. The other two retreated to a vantage point where they spent the rest of the day taking pot-shots at security forces around the sprawling complex.

Soldiers took up positions on the roof, and jail officials used a loudspeaker to warn the prisoners: "Surrender or die."

Meanwhile, 200 police officers and four armoured vehicles from the German peacekeeping mission gathered outside the prison walls.

As darkness fell, five lorry loads of soldiers from the newly trained Afghan National Army arrived, and further shooting could be heard.

One panting soldier who walked from the scene told reporters: "We killed them." After one last burst of gunfire, the military commander, Amin Jan, said "We searched all the rooms, and it's now under control, so we're leaving."

Five prison officers died and two policemen were missing, said a spokesman for the interior ministry. Three police officers and two inmates, caught in the crossfire, were wounded.

The renegade prisoners were first held in a northern jail run by the warlord, General Abdul Rashid Dostum, in 2001, on suspicion of fighting alongside the Taliban and al-Qaida, officials said.

Pul-e-Charki, a crumbling and overcrowded prison on the edge of Kabul, was the scene of many executions under the Taliban and previous Afghan regimes.

Current inmates include three Americans serving sentences of eight to 10 years for torturing Afghan al-Qaida suspects. Jack Idema, an American mercenary, and colleagues Edward Carabello and Brent Bennett were found guilty last September after a chaotic trial that embarrassed the US and its Afghan allies.

Idema claimed to be covertly employed by the US military and has lodged an appeal due to be heard early next year.

It was unclear whether the three Americans were being held in the same wing as the renegade inmates. Officials earlier said they were being held separately from other prisoners.
 
very good news indeed. Its good to see their training is paying off.
 
The sooner they can get on their feet, the sooner the country can get back to a normal state of being.   It's a start, glad to hear it.
 
FWIW
Pul-e-Charki is a base on the northeast side of Kabul - The Canadians train on the base in the SouthWest...
 
UNfucQING believable........they charged people torturing al-Qaida suspects? I demand we all start a letter writing campaign to free them. Oh and about those Pakistani and Iraqi suspects (suspects my ass), shouldn't they have been shot for Terrorism? FUCKING BASTARDS, anything would be too good for them.  A public shooting on the borders would be a great idea, deterrence of the first calibre. That would reduce the amount of incoming foreign al-qaida terrorists. :)

Sometimes the good guys gotta take off the gloves  :warstory:
 
I'd be interested to know whether the Afghan Army units involved were ones being trained by Canadians

No they weren't.  Kevin was correct in his comments.

they charged people torturing al-Qaida suspects?

Why?

Sometimes the good guys gotta take off the gloves

Don't you become part of the problem and are no longer distinguishable between Good and Bad?
 
As Gunner alluded as soon as we "take off the gloves" we lose our moral right to diferentiate between them and us with regards too terrorism.  The fact we fight under a set principle (the rules of land warfare) are what distinguish our actions as right.

If we allow ourselves to be pulled into the gutter and start torture or courts of "star chamber" sessions we have lots our definining characteristics and they have truly won.


 
KevinB said:
Pul-e-Charki is a base on the northeast side of Kabul - The Canadians train on the base in the SouthWest...

(chuckle ... I was kinda thinkin' Pol-e-Charki hadn't moved too much from when I was in Camp Warehouse ... wink)
The newspapers didn't mention which Afghan Army units were engaged, thus I was only curious whether the closest ANA unit had taken care of business, or whether they'd bussed in help from anywhere else.

Thanks for the clarifications, Kev and Gunner!
 
UNfucQING believable........they charged people torturing al-Qaida suspects? I demand we all start a letter writing campaign to free them. Oh and about those Pakistani and Iraqi suspects (suspects my ***), shouldn't they have been shot for Terrorism? ******* BASTARDS, anything would be too good for them.  A public shooting on the borders would be a great idea, deterrence of the first calibre. That would reduce the amount of incoming foreign al-qaida terrorists.

Listen buds, you can't have vigilantes like Jack Idema running around the Afghan countryside waging a personal war against Al Queada.

As professional soldiers we're bound by legal obligations that give us the moral highground necessary to win wars. Take a look at Somalia for a fine example of what happens when Canadians question the integrity of Canadian soldiers. Take a look at Abu Gharib and see the kind of crap storm that erupts when US forces are suspected of acting like the regime they are sent to destroy. The Americans found out in Vietnam the importance of support back home, and their veterans are still suffering a high number of cases of PTSD due to the ungratefull public they returned home to. If the public found out that ours or an allied government was allowing torture as a means of intelligence gathering we would lose the support at home we need to get this job done.

Yes, I know Idema claims to be supported by the Pentagon. But he has a criminal record in the US and word is that he was junk when he was in the SF. As well, if he was doing such a good job, he would have never been arrested by US and Afghan forces. Even if he was supported by the US government, that does not justify his violation of international law. A big part of fighting terror in Afghanistan is convincing the locals that is better to support us then it is to support Al Queda. But you can't give them a sense of security if you have a bunch of mercenaries fighting their own war independent of any government.
 
Matters not if they were Canadian trained or not, the trainers would assist in the orders and plans, and then (for lack of better terms) allow the ANA commanders to "unleash the hounds". From there, they stay back an observe from a distance. After the op was over, they would conduct a AAR with the commanders (Squad to company level), no different from any ex here.

 
Glad to see the strong condemnation of Jack Idema on this thread IMHO he and his bunch were not "the good guys" and the last thing we want to do is align ourselves with them. They are where they belong: in an Afghan jail, sentenced by an Afghan court, for committing crimes against the Afghan people. Cheers.
 
UNfucQING believable........they charged people torturing al-Qaida suspects? I demand we all start a letter writing campaign to free them. Oh and about those Pakistani and Iraqi suspects (suspects my ass), shouldn't they have been shot for Terrorism? FUCKING BASTARDS, anything would be too good for them.  A public shooting on the borders would be a great idea, deterrence of the first calibre. That would reduce the amount of incoming foreign al-qaida terrorists.

Sometimes the good guys gotta take off the gloves

Before you take off your gloves which are probably attached by a string, can you turn your brain on for us?

A public shooting on the borders would be a great idea, deterrence of the first calibre. That would reduce the amount of incoming foreign al-qaida terrorists.

Alright. So guys who are willing to blow themselves up are going to be shocked into submission by a public shooting. It will prompt them to take their big red ball and go home huh.
 
Yeah if we cremate them afterwards so they won't go to heaven, or whatever. I think in their delusional mind, it might freak them out. LOL

Yeah you're right about the moral high ground thing, but it's soooo hard not to take things personally.
(Also I do exaggerate in my posts, for S&G LOL).

Ghost778 wtf is up with the personal attack relax, we aren't in the UN.
Now apologize.
 
nismo0 said:
(Also I do exaggerate in my posts, for S&G LOL).

nismo0,

When you present yourself seriously, you may expect to be taken seriously. If you wish to present yourself as a class clown, expect to be treated as such. We have little use for a court jester attempting to inject poorly considered levity, or unjustified solutions based on opinions without consideration of circumstances and societal factors or impacts, into threads of serious discussion. If you only wish to stir a pot and then take offence to serious criticism and counter-argument, then start a thread in off-topic and keep it there, or find a forum more suited to your mood. I hardly think you are the one deserving of an apology based on your contributions.
 
O'Leary beautifully said.  Nismo, as anyone else on this site, you are welcome to your own opinion, no one will oppose that, but perhaps it would be wiser in the future to at the very express it in a less "class-clownish" manner.  At least when a more serious topic such is this is the one being posted to.

Cheers
 
Michael OLeary said:
nismo0,

When you present yourself seriously, you may expect to be taken seriously. If you wish to present yourself as a class clown, expect to be treated as such. We have little use for a court jester attempting to inject poorly considered levity, or unjustified solutions based on opinions without consideration of circumstances and societal factors or impacts, into threads of serious discussion. If you only wish to stir a pot and then take offence to serious criticism and counter-argument, then start a thread in off-topic and keep it there, or find a forum more suited to your mood. I hardly think you are the one deserving of an apology based on your contributions.

â Å“...attempting to inject poorly considered levityâ ? If that comment isn't the epitome of your pretentious and limited understanding of forums and the English language, then I don't know what is. Poorly considered levity? Was there a proper form of levity you would accept on this form? ::) Please understand the use and the correct connotation of a word before you use it.  :-[

â Å“Unjustified solutions based on opinions without consideration of circumstances and societal factors or impacts, into threads of serious discussionâ ?
My understanding of mid-east affairs far exceeds yours, I would say by a factor of 100. This is not any form of exaggerations; I can assess this by your response, your rank, and years of experience. Further more, if you are wholly interested in adding your 'justified solutions based on scientific facts with consideration of all circumstances and socio-political economic factorsâ ? I humbly suggest you join a think tank. Clearly these plebeian forums are not the place to express such arguments and solutions. Lastly I see by your experience that you have accumulated over 20 years, but yet only rose to the rank of Capt.; need I write more.  :eek:

Please present counter arguments, but please don't call people names, don't imply it either. It looks poorly on your character, much worse then my harmless exaggerations that takes aim at no one on this forum. I keep things light because this forum is not the NSC, or whatever the Canadian equivalent is. If people throw out ideas that you may not like or agree with, teach them or ignore them; but don't be pretentious, and kindly do not attack them personally.  :-*

Lastly, there is a fair bit of truth to my recommendation of public execution and cremation. Not all our problems can be solved through reason, or logic, when a country operates under Shari a Law, unconventional solutions need to be explored. But not specifically or limited to the ones I just mentioned above.

 
yeah I was gonna say something about looking for my baseball bat, but then I remembered that personal threats are rather silly online.  this boy deffinitely needs to be taught some manners though.
 
nismo0 said:
Clearly these plebeian forums are not the place to express such arguments and solutions.

You could always leave. I don't think anyone would mind, be offended or miss you.
 
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