LAV III Recce Vehicles

[Fishbone Jones]

And that is why we would never report anything as "clear". It was always "appears clear".

UAV or anything else airborne is the same.

And I will believe no miracle claims about gee-whiz technology, including LADAR.

Same for armoured recce. Never commit

 

[Kirkhill]

The drills don't change but the tools most definitely will, UAVs are far more advanced in terms of actual employement than UGVs; however, some UGVs show some significant promise. 

Why even stovepipe it?  Why not have a recce platform that carries both a UGV and UAV platform which both transmit their data to the same uplink/feed.  The Recce vehicle now becomes a sort of mothership for these vehicles.  Some of this stuff is obviously "pie in the sky" but the military, with particular emphasis on the cavalry, is always slow to adapt to new technology.  We only need to look at the continued use of the horse in conventional warfare from about 1865 onwards, despite plenty of good examples of it being a bad idea, to show that this is indeed the case.

Still, you were right to note the "conventional" aspect of horses in war.  The horse has had many "unconventional" uses since then.  Strangely enough those "unconventional" uses look awfully "traditional" - moving small raiding parties of well armed men over broken ground rapidly....Afghanistan SOF types, the Eastern Partisan Wars of WW2 and, in a slightly different context, Burma mules by Chindits and eventually "conventional" forces.

One might be inclined to say "horses for courses" .......

 

[quadrapiper]

Enjoying the discussion - excellent window into a world I know nothing about.

RoyalDrew, Kirkhill - could I interest you in a self-fueling, soldier-focused personnel/material transport system with onboard optical and aural sensors, some self-repair capability, and a fleet-based self-replication capability?

 

[Kirkhill]

Quadrapiper:

Absolutely. 

Please remit costs of purchase or lease, estimated costs of Operation and Maintenance, training costs if appropriate, decommissioning costs, liabilities and estimated time of delivery.

A Product Data sheet listing specifications would be useful.

Range
Speed
Useable Load (excluding fuel and maintenance items)
Range of Sensors

We thank you for your interest.  ;D

 

[SeaKingTacco]

You forgot O&M costs for the next 40 years...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Why not have a recce platform that carries both a UGV and UAV platform which both transmit their data to the same uplink/feed.

I think the answer lies here.  8)

 

[Kirkhill]

To build on some of the comments that Kirkhill posted earlier in the thread. 

The UK Army has just undergone a large downsizing.  This resulting in a number of units being removed from their ORBAT. 

The one new cap badge that emerged from all of this downsizing is within the RAC and is the Scottish and North Irish Yeomanry (SNIY) which is light cavalry. They are mounted on mounted in light armoured vehicles (R-WMIKs, basically a Land Rover) and tasked with armoured recce duties.

As mentioned SNIY has been paired with the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (SCOT DG) who have been recently re-rolled after 75 years from tanks to light cav and equipped with the Jackal 2.

See WMIK: http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23594.aspx
See SNIY: http://www.army.mod.uk/armoured/regiments/28480.aspx
See Light Cav: http://www.army.mod.uk/armoured/regiments/35816.aspx
See Jackal 2: http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/23243.aspx

Cheers,

MC

Further to Light Dragoons and Jackals and Light Cavalry utility ....

The Light Dragoons Lead Light Cavalry Charge
(Source: British Army; issued March 03, 2015)
The punch packed by The Light Dragoons, a light cavalry regiment tasked to provide the Army’s eyes and ears on the battlefield, has been tested.

Exercise WESSEX STORM has seen the unit carrying out live fire training on the rain-lashed STANTA ranges near Thetford, close to their base at Swanton Morley in Norfolk. Deploying on Jackal 2 and Coyote armoured vehicles, the soldiers are training alongside 3rd Regiment Royal Horse Artillery, 21 Engineer Regiment and 2nd Battalion The Royal Gurkha Rifles.

As well as bringing to bear the firepower of their vehicles’ Grenade Machine Guns, Heavy Machine Guns and General Purpose Machine Guns, the Light Dragoons have worked with fire support from Apache attack helicopters, 3 RHA’s 105mm Light Guns and the Gurkha’s 81mm mortars.

The 400-strong battlegroup will now move to Salisbury Plain for a two-week-long simulated mission against an enemy force. The overall aim is to test the Light Dragoons’ progress in developing their new role as light cavalry. As part of the Army 2020 reforms, the unit has swapped CVRT Scimitar armoured fighting vehicles for Jackals and Coyotes and boosted its skills as dismounted infantry.

Working within the Adaptable Force, light cavalry provide highly mobile reconnaissance troops tasked to find battle winning information and exploit opportunities to engage the enemy, as well as work with and train foreign armies.

The Light Dragoons’ Commanding Officer Lieutenant Colonel James Senior said: “Exercise WESSEX STORM represents a superb opportunity for The Light Dragoons to operate alongside our attached arms in a challenging exercise. It is the first time the Jackal has been used in a light cavalry role and we have been working very hard in readiness for the exercise. I am absolutely sure we will come away with an enhanced understanding of how the light cavalry capability has developed.”

The Light Dragoons, known as ‘England’s Northern Cavalry’, recruits from the North East of England and Yorkshire.

Trooper Craig Griffiths, 24 from Peterlee in Co Durham, is a Coyote driver who has been in the Army for two years. He said: “Jackals and Coyotes are fantastic vehicles, because they can go over virtually any terrain at speed, they’re easy to maintain and pack a heavy punch.

“Every time we come out on exercise we’re learning and getting better at our new role. We started last week with firing from a static vehicle and have worked up towards having the whole squadron of 28 vehicles moving and firing together. We’ve done everything by day and then at night, with darkness adding an extra complication.”

HMG gunner Lance Corporal Luke Peacock, 26 from Doncaster, said: “Reconnaissance has always been our business and becoming light cavalry is just about doing it in a different way. We’ve got new vehicles, changed our tactics to suit them and worked on our infantry skills.

“This has been good training that’s tested us and the vehicles. I’m part of B Squadron’s HQ troop, so while the main force goes forward to scout or attack an objective we hang back to provide co-ordination and a reserve.”

LCpl Peacock, who has been in the Army for four years, deployed to Afghanistan in 2012 when The Light Dragoons provided the Brigade Reconnaissance Force for Op HERRICK 16.

-ends-

Link to Defense Aerospace

 

[MilEME09]

A attempt to silence the beast? from Canadian defense review

Revision Military, a world leader in integrated, purpose-built soldier solutions, has won a $20 million, multi-year contract through General Dynamics Land Systems Canada to provide Energy Storage Systems to retrofit RECCE 6.0 LAV vehicles that will silently power on-board sensor suites. The Revision system, built around its Nerv Centr™ SWatPack™ scalable battery system, is capable of operating in a wide range of hot and cold temperatures and climatic conditions beyond the objective eight-hours of Silent Watch powering time. The Revision battery system provides more silent watch time than 30 standard 6T format AGM batteries at less than half the weight.

This fully customized, ballistic-protected solution re-purposes the winch pocket on the RECCE 6.0 LAV vehicles to house this optimized energy storage with a plug-and-play modular solution that can be serviced in the field.

“Both the silent watch energy storage solution and winning this contract are a testament to the Revision team of experts from the industrial designers, engineers and software programmers to the technical support and product management personnel who worked together to ensure a unique result for the Canadian DND” said Jonathan Blanshay, CEO of Revision. He further stated, “Power is possibly one of the most critical elements for success on the battlefield today, whether for the individual soldier to ensure uninterrupted performance of his powered gear or for situations where silent delivery of power in varying conditions over an eight hour time frame is essential. Revision is a solutions provider that employs science, cutting-edge technology and an innovation-driven approach to solving complex battlefield problems. We are excited to demonstrate our capabilities in the field of energy storage and power management with this contract.”

In February 2014, Revision expanded its capabilities by adding Energy Storage and Power Management to its roster of integrated optics and armor technologies.  Development of scalable, upgradable vehicular power management and energy storage capabilities is a natural extension for Revision as the principles behind the design of this example, the Silent Watch Battery System, draw on the philosophy of providing technologically advanced products that focuses on meeting mission needs. This design philosophy has allowed Revision to deliver numerous protective products to individual soldiers from lightweight helmets to integrated facial protection, ballistic eyewear and personal power systems.

Revision also offers the SharePack® System, an innovative energy storage solution which integrates flexible and scalable power provision and management capabilities into a conformal man-worn unit.  The unit can store, deliver, harvest and provide power to a broad range of electronic devices and can be recharged quickly by equipment such as a solar blanket, vehicle outputs or energy harvested from the operational environment.

http://www.canadiandefencereview.com/news.php/news/1779

 

[George Wallace]

???

This fully customized, ballistic-protected solution re-purposes the winch pocket on the RECCE 6.0 LAV vehicles to house this optimized energy storage with a plug-and-play modular solution that can be serviced in the field.

Does this mean that the 6.0 LAV will not have a winch?

 

[MilEME09]

???

Does this mean that the 6.0 LAV will not have a winch?

atleast not the RECCE varient unless it gets moved

 

[Old EO Tech]

???

Does this mean that the 6.0 LAV will not have a winch?

That is exactly what what it means, there is not other spot to put a winch on a LAV3/6.  Now even with the normal ISC/CP LAV6 only 1 in 4 get a winch, so maybe the SSM's LAV in RECCE Sqn will have the only winch :-/

 

[George Wallace]

That is exactly what what it means, there is not other spot to put a winch on a LAV3/6.  Now even with the normal ISC/CP LAV6 only 1 in 4 get a winch, so maybe the SSM's LAV in RECCE Sqn will have the only winch :-/

Of the vehicles that I would imagine that needed a winch the most, above all others, it would be Recce; as they are often well removed from the rest of a BG/Bde/Corps.  They would be the ones most likely to have to conduct "self-recovery" due to their location and distance from the Main Force.  If they are 'stuck' behind enemy lines, sending in the SSM's LAV or any other recovery vehicle would be out of the question.  Not a problem in peacetime training, but a more serious matter in an actual conflict.

I originally read this article to imply that these batteries were much more capable and efficient than the existing batteries used and were to replace them in the hull.  If they are replacing a winch/placed in a winch housing, then they are not replacing, but being added to/supplementing the existing batteries.  If it is a matter of auxiliary equipment to charge these batteries, then why not on or in the stowage bin? 

 

[Old EO Tech]

Of the vehicles that I would imagine that needed a winch the most, above all others, it would be Recce; as they are often well removed from the rest of a BG/Bde/Corps.  They would be the ones most likely to have to conduct "self-recovery" due to their location and distance from the Main Force.  If they are 'stuck' behind enemy lines, sending in the SSM's LAV or any other recovery vehicle would be out of the question.  Not a problem in peacetime training, but a more serious matter in an actual conflict.

I originally read this article to imply that these batteries were much more capable and efficient than the existing batteries used and were to replace them in the hull.  If they are replacing a winch/placed in a winch housing, then they are not replacing, but being added to/supplementing the existing batteries.  If it is a matter of auxiliary equipment to charge these batteries, then why not on or in the stowage bin?

They likely want them protected under armour.  And yes, what I thought when I read the article was that this extra power storage was on top of the standard batteries, in order to not have to start the engine for up to 8 hours during surv ops.  The Coyote had all sorts of issues with batteries being killed by the surveillance system and was the first vehicle to get gel batteries that only somewhat helped with that issue.

I agree that Recce vehicles are the hardest to tactically recover safely, but I'm betting that this is the least of the evils solution within a limited project funding...

 

[Kirkhill]

Now that they have boosted the loaded weight of the LIGHT Armoured Vehicle to 55,000 lbs (25 tonnes) how big does the winch have to be?  Would it fit inside the existing compartment?  And could it self-recover in any event?  Isn't recovery one of the issues that the Logistics Vehicle Modernization programme is struggling with?

 

[George Wallace]

Now that they have boosted the loaded weight of the LIGHT Armoured Vehicle to 55,000 lbs (25 tonnes) how big does the winch have to be?  Would it fit inside the existing compartment?  And could it self-recover in any event?  Isn't recovery one of the issues that the Logistics Vehicle Modernization programme is struggling with?

Although, I agree that someone should get off their butt on the Logistic Vehicle Modernization program and a proper Recovery Vehicle; unless it is an armoured recovery vehicle capable of working on the FEBA with A Ech AFVs, it will not be of any use.  That said, Logistics vehicles of any type will not move twenty or forty kilometers behind enemy lines to recover a Recce LAV.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Although, I agree that someone should get off their butt on the Logistic Vehicle Modernization program and a proper Recovery Vehicle; unless it is an armoured recovery vehicle capable of working on the FEBA with A Ech AFVs, it will not be of any use.  That said, Logistics vehicles of any type will not move twenty or forty kilometers behind enemy lines to recover a Recce LAV.

BIP and start walking.

 

[Old EO Tech]

Although, I agree that someone should get off their butt on the Logistic Vehicle Modernization program and a proper Recovery Vehicle; unless it is an armoured recovery vehicle capable of working on the FEBA with A Ech AFVs, it will not be of any use.  That said, Logistics vehicles of any type will not move twenty or forty kilometers behind enemy lines to recover a Recce LAV.

I'm pretty sure that the Enhanced Recovery Capability project is looking at both a LAV6 stryker type MRV, and a new heavy Wrecker.  But either way the ERC is not scheduled to procure anything until 2023....

 

[George Wallace]

I'm pretty sure that the Enhanced Recovery Capability project is looking at both a LAV6 stryker type MRV, and a new heavy Wrecker.  But either way the ERC is not scheduled to procure anything until 2013....

THEY'RE LATE!

>

 

[George Wallace]

Seriously.  There are major problems, as we have discussed in so many other threads, with procurement. 

 

[cupper]

Now that they have boosted the loaded weight of the LIGHT Armoured Vehicle to 55,000 lbs (25 tonnes) how big does the winch have to be?  Would it fit inside the existing compartment?  And could it self-recover in any event?  Isn't recovery one of the issues that the Logistics Vehicle Modernization programme is struggling with?

Give me a lever and I can move the world.

Or in this case, enough cable and snatch blocks.