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Lawsuit could make designated drivers liable for intoxicated passengers

There is a reference in my previous post. Could you post one reference for your assertion that what is accepted as fact by courts and experts in forensic science is wrong.

http://www.medicinenet.com/alcohol_and_nutrition/page2.htm (7mg% to 14mg% at 150 pounds per hour.)
http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih3/alcohol/guide/info-alcohol.htm (Same)

 
What really irritates me is MADD wants the law to read that the police can pull you over anytime they want, without cause.  I agree that drunk drivers are a menace, but MADD's proposal flies in the face of the Charter.
 
I recently joined DAMM; Drunks Against Mad Mothers
 
Jim-

Sorry to insert myself again. I believe the MADD suggestion is that the police can give you a roadside screening device demand at any time. Not just to pull you over. Police can already do that. Any vehicle operating on a public roadway can be pulled over for document, license and insurance checks. Now MADD wants it to be okay for them to check your documents and give you a roadside screening device demand.

Its completely unneccesssary and lazy. Right now the demand threshhold is "reasonable SUSPICION" that there is blood in the drivers system. Thats a pretty low thresh hold to meet. I would suggest that this proposal just inconvieniences drivers, alienates the public, and really doesnt add anything. I told the rep who gave us a presentation the same thing. Most cops I know are about 50/50 on the subject.

Id suggest that if MADD wanted to make a difference they would target judges for letting drivers go on solid cases instead of the kinda no clear direction strategy they have now.

I found this:

http://www.madd.ca/english/news/pr/p20101005.htm
 
No problem, I stand corrected, I think..... ;)

The intrusion of government into our everyday lives is a significant issue that few have picked up on.
 
Jim Seggie said:
No problem, I stand corrected, I think..... ;)

The intrusion of government into our everyday lives is a significant issue that few have picked up on.

And people keep demanding more! Everybody who disagrees with someone wants the government to help them get rid of it- no matter what. End result, since somebody always hates something, is the government being requested to get involved in everything.
 
Container said:
There is a reference in my previous post. Could you post one reference for your assertion that what is accepted as fact by courts and experts in forensic science is wrong.

http://www.medicinenet.com/alcohol_and_nutrition/page2.htm (7mg% to 14mg% at 150 pounds per hour.)
http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih3/alcohol/guide/info-alcohol.htm (Same)

I apologize, I missed the link. The source of information in my post is, as stated, first hand participation in a demonstration regarding the effects of raising blood alcohol in relation to drinking.

Having gone through the references you provided, there is no facts presented on how fast alcohol raises the BAC. There is much on how it is absorbed, how fast it is metabolized, but little to none I found on the relation of an amount of alcohol consumed to the concurrent BAC.

The quote I found most interesting was from your first reference, " A healthy liver oxidizes pure ethanol at the rate of about ¼ to ⅓ of an ounce per hour, which is less than 1 ounce of hard liquor." Which suggests that in fact you cannot metabolize one ounce of rum (mmm rum) in the course of an hour.

This being said your original proposition that it is impossible to blow .05% after consuming one drink can not be concluded. Additionally in the last reference you provided a chart giving general behaviour concurrent with blood alcohol content is given. Within the .06-.10 range is explained as a state of "Pleasure Numbness of feelings, Nausea, Sleepiness, Emotional arousal" with some impaired coordination.  It infers that depth perception, reasoning, inappropriate social behaviour, slurred speech, lack of balance and other things all occur after the mark of 0.1%. That being said it alternately proposes that judgement and alertness can be affected at as low as .01%.

All this aside, the only part of your post I disagreed with was the impossibility of blowing .05% after one drink. I have seen it done first hand after all.


Another aspect I find interesting about the possible fallout of this law is public transit. If the driver is responsible for drunks on the Vehicle and them hurting theirselves the downtown culture of Halifax is going to bleed, and our free busses on New years and St. Paddys day are probably going to stop. I wonder if an exception would be made for public transit?
 
Container said:
...is "reasonable SUSPICION" that there is blood in the drivers system.
Damn straight -- keep those zombie drivers off the road!  ;D


Oh, and I'm a member of BADD (Bikers Against Dumb Drivers  :nod:  )
 
Do you always use bafflegab when you are wrong?

How fast the BAC rises would be directly related to the absorption rate. Alcohol goes in, gets absorbed across the membrane and is in the blood. Once in the blood the BAC goes up.

Lets do this- proviide me a reference for your position that isnt university students watching movies with an instrument and I'll consider it. I've testified in court on these matters. I have taken hundreds of breath samples, investigated hundreds of drunk drivers, taken several courses, am a prior instructor in this area.

You got drunk at school.

 
Well, here is the follow up to the original post and civil suit :

Ontario Superior Court decision, Inga Richardson  v.  Joey Sanayhie, 2010 ONSC 3000 which was released on May 26, 2010.


In November, 2007 Inga Richardson and her common-law spouse, Joey Sanayhie were invited to a house party. Ms. Richardson planned on drinking at the party and Mr. Sanayhie agreed to be her “designated driver”.

Once at the party, Ms. Richardson drank alot of alchohol and became intoxicated.  As promised, Mr. Sanayhie, as the “designated driver” drove Ms. Richardson home. As this couple were being driven by Mr. Sanayhie, they began to argue.

As the argument increased, Ms. Richardson threatened to jump out of the moving motor vehicle. In response to this threat from his spouse, Mr. Sanayhie continued to drive on the streets of Oshawa and did not slow down or stop the vehicle, which this couple travelled in.

Unfortunately, a drunken Ms. Richardson followed through on her threat and jumped from the moving car. Subsequent to the jump from the car, Ms. Richardson sustained catastrophic injuries to her body and suffered severe brain damage.

After the assessment of the damage that Ms. Richardson sustained; Ms. Richardson launched a civil law suit against her common-law spouse, Mr. Joey Sanayhie.

Ms. Richardson suggested, through her lawsuit, that Mr. Sanayhie had breached his numerous duties of care as the “designated driver”. The lawsuit suggests that Mr. Sanayhie, as the “designated driver” should have supervised her drinking at the house party and prevented her from jumping out of the car, during the ride home on the Oshawa street.

On May 17, 2010 the defendant, Mr. Sanayhie and his counsel, John J.Adair appeared in the Ontario Superior Court in front to Justice Edward Belobaba with a motion under rule 21.01(1)(a) to strike those paragraphs that allege that Mr. Sanayhie, as designated driver, was required to monitor and control Inga’s consumption of alcohol at the party and generally supervise her behaviour. In failing to do so, he breached a duty of care and was negligent.

After listening to the defendant’s motion, Justice Edward Belobaba wrote the following:

” The focus here is on that portion of the pleading that would impose on a designated driver, in the absence of any special agreement, a general duty to supervise and control the alcohol consumption of his passengers and generally ensure that every passenger gets home safely. The defendant says that there is no such duty in law and for good reason. The imposition of these additional duties to monitor and control the passenger’s alcohol consumption would discourage people from ever agreeing to be a designated driver. This would not be in the public interest. The defendant submits that the impugned paragraphs do not disclose a reasonable cause of action and should be struck.

I agree with the defendant. In my view, there is no chance that a sensible trier of fact would impose such duties on a designated driver. The impugned paragraphs are certain to fail. The motion to strike is granted.”

Justice Edward Belobaba also wrote:

” Joey did not invite Inga to subject herself to a risk that he created or controlled. There is no evidence that the relationship between Joey and Inga was one in which Joey exercised power and control over a vulnerable and dependent spouse or that Inga reasonably relied on Joey to supervise and control her alcohol intake whenever they went out to a party.”

” The fact that Joey and Inga were living together does not mean that Joey, as the designated driver, had a duty to monitor and curtail Inga’s consumption of alcohol. There is no evidence of any specific discussion or agreement wherein Joey promised to do so. Absent such agreement, Joey was under no obligation to monitor and limit Inga’s alcohol consumption.”
 
Container said:
Do you always use bafflegab when you are wrong?

How fast the BAC rises would be directly related to the absorption rate. Alcohol goes in, gets absorbed across the membrane and is in the blood. Once in the blood the BAC goes up.

Lets do this- proviide me a reference for your position that isnt university students watching movies with an instrument and I'll consider it. I've testified in court on these matters. I have taken hundreds of breath samples, investigated hundreds of drunk drivers, taken several courses, am a prior instructor in this area.

You got drunk at school.

Do you always resort to an insulting tone when someone is disagreeing with you? Tch.

http://www.princeton.edu/uhs/healthy-living/hot-topics/alcohol/ states "BAC stands for Blood Alcohol Content, and is the number of milligrams of alcohol per milliliter in your bloodstream. In New Jersey, the legal definition of drunkenness is a BAC of 0.08.

If you are a 120 lb. woman who drinks four drinks in one hour, your BAC will be 0.17. If you are a 160 lb. man who consumes 5 drinks in one hour, your BAC will be 0.14. Of 100 people with a BAC greater than 0.4, statistics show that one will die."

0.17/4= .0425 meaning simply one drink can raise a 120lb woman to .425 Bac. Subtract 20lbs make that woman 100lbs and it is easily possible. Especially depending on the drink being consumed. .0425/.0075=5.6666...  A drink would only have to be 1/5.6th larger than what they were using in this study for that woman to have reached .05% in one drink. If the drink is a cocktail that is only 200-250 ml the required increase in the glass needs only to be 44ml larger to achieve this.

 
old medic said:
Well, here is the follow up....
Does that not refer simply to the first portion of the suit (DD responsible for drinker's behaviour at party), but still leave the crux of the matter (DD responsible for drinker's behaviour while being driven * ) unaddressed?

That's how I'm reading it anyway.



* This bit:
GAP said:
However, Judge Belobaba said that the critical question of whether Mr. Sanayhie was responsible for ensuring Ms. Richardson’s safety on the way home will be decided at a trial.
 
Did you forget the part where I said it was in general and that there are some exceptions such 100 pound females with poor liver function and that it cannot possibly be 100 percent for the entire population.

Furthermore the idea that you can just divide the BAC by four and then subtract weight is flawed. There are too many other factors involved besides weight.

Again- you are far outside of reality. Im telling you that the accepted averages are 10mg% to 20mg%. There is no other answer. There are variables that can change it but its in the vicinity.

As a side not im glad the judge made a good decision.
 
Container said:
Did you forget the part where I said it was in general and that there are some exceptions such 100 pound females with poor liver function and that it cannot possibly be 100 percent for the entire population.

Furthermore the idea that you can just divide the BAC by four and then subtract weight is flawed. There are too many other factors involved besides weight.

Again- you are far outside of reality. Im telling you that the accepted averages are 10mg% to 20mg%. There is no other answer. There are variables that can change it but its in the vicinity.

As a side not im glad the judge made a good decision.

Failing us getting together and performing an empirical test then, I guess we shall just have to agree to disagree my friend.
 
I'll dig (search) around a bit.

this is in there also, which I think is what we're after:

In addition to this portion of the suit being struck, counsel agreed, on consent, to an order also to go to striking paragraph 7 and that portion of paragraph 12 that refers to the Occupier’s Liability Act. Counsel agree that occupier’s liability is not a viable basis for the plaintiff’s claim.

I don't know enough about the claim and the mentioned act.

 
NSDreamer said:
Failing us getting together and performing an empirical test then, I guess we shall just have to agree to disagree my friend.

HAHA! ;D

I'll get the beer....I mean the "variables".
 
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