Leadership in the Cadet Snr NCO role

[Franko]

Well, my last question started a flurry of discussion, so why not another? Here it goes...


What, if any, are the problems that YOU have seen with the leadership of the Snr NCOs in YOUR corps?

How would you change these problems?

Is there any policies you would implement to improve the quality of leadership of all NCOs?

Comments please!

Regards

 

[Caz]

Franko, I enjoy you.

The largest problem of leadership goes back to the entire "if you slow down, they will stop" principle.

Officers need to remember (especially the junior ones) that we are officers. Officer = office. There is absolutely no reason why your Chief can‘t have their staff of WOs, and run the unit - and I don‘t just mean on the parade square. Training plans, instructor allocations, exercise preparation, warning and operations orders... if we, as staff, don‘t let the senior cadets (especially on the air side, once they get past their OJT) do these things, they look up to us for everything, and don‘t delegate down.

We shouldn‘t be leaving them in the dark (write me a training plan, Chief); we‘re here to provide the resources and guidance where necessary. What is our goal with the junior cadets? To train them and keep them happy, hopefully via our senior cadets. Our goal with senior cadets? To train them in our roles, so they can transition into the roles in the community or the CF that match their skill-set.

The staff need to challenge the senior cadets to constantly surpass their best form. We‘re here, as I said, to provide the resources, and fill gaps when needed (130 new recruits this year made the NCO structure unable to cope with the instructional duties). We‘re also hear to enforce the standards at the top level - the Chief‘s office.

Clear as mud?

-R.

 

[Jason Jarvis]

The largest problem of leadership goes back to the entire "if you slow down, they will stop" principle

This almost sounds like the chicken and the egg argument, and plays right back to the debate about what needs to be done to fix [army] cadets.

You can‘t have strong senior NCOs without strong leadership from unit officers. I know a unit where senior cadets (Sgt and up) routinely show up without their uniforms, do not prepare training plans, follow a regular class schedule or lead by example. As a result, this unit has low attendance, poor discipline, low morale and next to no espirit de corps. All that aside, the cadets appear to want to learn, but the seniors are so jaded about the whole thing they don‘t seem to care.

Assuming the CO is following and cultivating his links up the chain of command to the ACO -- who seems to be relatively unaware of the situation on the ground -- what can be done to correct the situation?

 

[chalk1]

First of all...ALL HAIL CAS! Nicely put. i totally agree. Giving seniors space to be NCO‘s and not taking over is a great way to start. There‘s nothing i can‘t stand more than an officer acting like an NCO. I hate to say how many times Ive seen that, because it can go on for that senior‘s entire time as CSM,RSM, etc. and the cadet learns only a small portion of their duties, is only used as a parade position and in the end has not developed to their ful potential as a leader.

 

[Franko]

Jason....those troops that are doing this are actually getting away with it?

I would personally make it a campain of utter torment until they couldn‘t take it anymore, then turn up the pain a bit more until they literally cried. Doesn‘t take much either. You can stay well inside the CHAP crap and still have a field day. Taskings...so may of them they can‘t cope, let off a bit, then turn it up higher. Dress them down about their deportment and dress...often. Don‘t sugar coat it either. Tell them the truth, don‘t lie(CHAP comes in when you do). When they start to crack, and they will(the slackers ALWAYS do) you‘ll see it in their eyes.

Thats the time to have "the talk". Be honest about their performance, don‘t lie. If they aren‘t up to par, tell them. Then offer a way to improve, give a final critique. Then tell them the ball is in their court.

In the end it‘s up to them. Obviously these slackers are literally spitting in your face when they pull these stunts. You are the boss, not them. Remind them of this through your actions and determination. They‘ll either sink or swim.

Hopefully these jokers will just quite, and some fresh blood will come up the ranks with some real professionalism and drive.

I‘ve only had to do this once(learned it from an old RSM) and it worked. The WO in question straightened up and left the cadets a Master and some good times to boot. He was worth the effort.

Had one who wasn‘t once(Sgt). Everything was rotten about him. Walked up to him and said(with the entire corps and staff present)"We are, myself very much so, so very disappointed in your performance and effort. You have no drive nor devotion to this corps. The CO has made up his mind and I‘m doing the deed....you are fired! Leave now, we will pick up your uniform tomorrow". His parents were present and they readilied agreed to this being done, for the corps sake as well as hitting him with a hammer. He was doing a lot of drugs at the time. 3 weeks later he came in, asked to see the CO and myself. He asked to be put on a probationary period of our choosing, and droped to the Pvt rank. We did. He turned himself around, got off the drugs and is now an excellent CIC officer. We still keep in touch to this day, he is a very good friend of mine now. Clean, sober, married with 2 kids.

Sometimes it takes drastic measure to snap people out of a bad thing, this specific case was unique.

I‘m sure I‘ll get some people out there who will chastise me for participating in this, but it helped him. If we had to do it all over again, I‘d be the first to step up.

Oh man..rambled on too much. As for the two slackers, kick ‘em out unless they‘re salvagable

Regards

 

[Franko]

Again it seems I‘ve dampened a good conversation.

My apologies

So lets get back on track....leading by example good. Officers letting NCOs do their job good...

What else is there? Must be lots of troops out there who can put in a cent or two, or in my case a whole bloody pound!

Regards

 

[Jason Jarvis]

Franko wrote:
Jason....those troops that are doing this are actually getting away with it?

Affirmative. Unfortunately for Caz, the officers take Officer = office to the extreme: there is no effective leadership because the officers do not lead.

I‘ve learned that this unit has been down in the dumps for quite some time, but always manages to muddle its way through each successive crisis. And it‘s a crying shame, too, because it has an excellent history (110 years old) and the junior cadets really are quite good. The officers complain about how hard it is to attract and retain cadets, but don‘t seem to want to sit down and talk about why that‘s happening.

This lack of leadership goes right back to what Caz said about providing resources and guidance, and to which I would add giving them a push and getting the h*ll out of their way. I‘ve always felt that teenagers learn best by doing things themselves and acting independently with a minimum of guidance. If, after giving a Sgt or WO2 a push, they stumble, that‘s fine -- so long as you‘re there to support them and ensure that they learn from their mistake(s). That done, go find that missing map. . . .

Strong and dynamic senior NCOs carry an immense amount of respect with junior cadets, and just like in the CF, are the glue that bonds everything together. If they don‘t feel empowered in their roles, the whole house rots around them.

Jason

 

[john226]

I have just signed up on this forum and the discussions here are very intersting.

However, I do have a question. At my cc their is this WO that is having some real difficult family problems and his preformance at the corps has suffered greatly from this.

He was not even in uniform last training day because he ran away from home.

Now the problem is, yes we could give him the boot but then (I am sure) his family problems would get worse.On the flip side should the cadets under him suffer from his bad performance?


any thoughts sugestions please

Who dares wins

 

[chalk1]

Refer to chap officer..thats all i can say. I have the same situation, at my corps there are quite a few cadets who have problems with home life and family. i dont often know what to do myself, neither do the officers it would seem.(not due to inexperience, just a touchy situation.) in our most extreme case, a senior cadet we have has an alcoholic father who sexually abuses hthe cadet on a regular basis. we cant intervene because the mother ‘loves" her husband too much, but cant stand the situation. cadets is the only outlet this cadet has, yet she is constantly a discipline problem...shes her own worst enemy, really. suggestions?

 

[Franko]

You have only one option. If you are aware of a an abuse happening to a minor you MUST report it to the police and child services. If you don‘t you are liable.

regards

 

[Caz]

Originally posted by Jason:
[qb]Affirmative. Unfortunately for Caz, the officers take Officer = office to the extreme: there is no effective leadership because the officers do not lead.
.............
Strong and dynamic senior NCOs carry an immense amount of respect with junior cadets, and just like in the CF, are the glue that bonds everything together. If they don‘t feel empowered in their roles, the whole house rots around them.
[/qb]

Jason, very much agreed. Some officers do take that to the extreme... and yes, by providing the resources, I do mean giving them a push, seeing how far they get, and the re-evaluating the situation to see how we can improve the process and results.

That leadership needs to start at the top, and flow down the ranks....

I know, it‘s all rather utopian

 

[Franko]

Good point and well said Caz

Regards

 

[cdhoult]

Last post for the night...errr...morning...

A lot of corps tend to have some kind of "Leadership Cycle".

Some senior cadets have some potential...but no one tells them they‘re doing anything wrong, or sits down and chats with them. Therefore, nothing gets done, and there is this generation of ‘leaders‘ who aren‘t that great...

Below them, is this amazing group of Cpl‘s and MCpl‘s who have tons of potential. They don‘t get the leadership from those above them, so they take the opporunity and provide it for themselves.

Now, when that group gets to the ‘top‘, I‘ve seen one of two things happen...

1. The group continues on to TRAIN good leaders, and stand back a little to allow that group to flourish.

or

2. That group continues to be a great group of leaders, but don‘t really pass on the knowledge of how everything runs...after they leave, there‘s this weaker group of leaders now at the top, who never really had a chance to lead, and are now thrust into the position.

I think just giving some responsability out will solve some of the problems, and actually calling them on little things. "Where‘s your uniform?" "Why are you late?" "Why aren‘t you ready to teach?" and the answer "uhhh" isn‘t good enough.

We recentley designed, and will be implimenting, a competition between the platoons...

For every cadet that comes out of uniform, they will be awarded no points...for every NCO that comes out of uniform, 5 points deducted (they should have the foresight to plan ahead).

For every cadet that is AWOL, 5 points deducted. Every NCO, 10 point.

Hopefully, when it hurts their platoons that much, they will own up to the responsability.

 

[Franko]

And what is the motivation/ reward for this competition?

As for pulling aside senior NCOs for dress and deportment...the RSM handles it. If he can‘t...they go to me( a very seasoned advisor from the Regiment)

Usually it doesn‘t get as far as that.

I do agree in the principle you are getting across. "know the job of the person above you". It is common practice in any tight unit. It strengthens the groups cohesion as well as compliments the structured atmosphere in the unit.

Too bad there aren‘t enough people doing this in the cadet world. I actually heard a CIC officer say"When I leave, they‘ll be ____ed!".

Lead by example indeed.

Regards

 

[Jason Jarvis]

Originally posted by Franko:
[qb] And what is the motivation/ reward for this competition?[/qb]

In my old squadron we were assessed based on our dress and department every training night. F/Sgts would look after their flight, the SWO would look after the F/Sgts and other supernumeraries, the WO1 would assess the SWO and any other WOs, and the duty officer would assess the WO1. These scores were tracked and used to award trophies to the top cadets in each level, as well as the top overall (almost always the WO1, of course) and most improved. Slightly anal retentive, of course, but a great way to encourage good uniforms, instill discipline and promote morale, e.g. if I keep my boots shiny and uniform pressed I could win a great big honking trophy on annual inspection!

I always thought it worked well, and our squadron did look good on parade -- even through a couple lean years. I suggested it last August as a way to improve morale at my corps and they all looked at me like I had three heads. Go figure.

 

[Caz]

Colin, when did you go army?

 

[cdhoult]

A trophy for the platoon as a whole, plus the individual marks would be tracked to go towards other awards.

They were discussing actually allowing some funds, to allow the platoon to have tickets to a hockey game, or pizza, or something to that affect.

I‘ve been army for 3 weeks now, Rob. It‘s been interesting, attempting to learn the program in that time in order to write the NSCE next Thursday!

 

[Disappointed9411]

3 weeks!, are you allowed to write NSCE, thats suprising for being in only a short time

 

[Franko]

Disappointed 9411...read the entire thread.


He SWITCHED elements...why is that so surprising?

Regards

 

[Caz]

Congrats, Colin - I‘m sure you‘ll do great. Going to do an air stint before you age out?

PM me.