Leadership: Opposition Poilievre v. PM Carney [Split from The vibe shift, end of "wokeness"?]

[Jarnhamar]

PM Carney is our general in the war on wokeness. Poilievre would not have had the audacity to pull this off. Not to mention Canadians would have lost their minds if a Conservative were behind it.

Ignoring pesky ethical concerns, as a budding invester-bro I'm glad the direction PM Carney is moving our business sector.


Corporate watchdog was still accepting complaints as Carney abruptly closed it down

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/corporate-watchdog-cancellation-complaints-human-rights-9.7263086

Carney says ‘lecturing countries from afar’ is an ‘ineffective strategy’

Carney says ‘lecturing countries from afar’ is an ‘ineffective strategy’

As he seeks new economic partnerships around the world, Prime Minister Mark Carney says publicly calling out other countries on issues like human rights is not helpful.

www.ctvnews.ca

“I do see that lecturing countries from afar is an ineffective strategy,” Carney said in a press conference with reporters in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia on Thursday. “It’s satisfying, but it’s ineffective.”

 

[Czech_pivo]

PM Carney is our general in the war on wokeness. Poilievre would not have had the audacity to pull this off. Not to mention Canadians would have lost their minds if a Conservative were behind it.

Ignoring pesky ethical concerns, as a budding invester-bro I'm glad the direction PM Carney is moving our business sector.


Corporate watchdog was still accepting complaints as Carney abruptly closed it down

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/corporate-watchdog-cancellation-complaints-human-rights-9.7263086

Carney says ‘lecturing countries from afar’ is an ‘ineffective strategy’

Carney says ‘lecturing countries from afar’ is an ‘ineffective strategy’

As he seeks new economic partnerships around the world, Prime Minister Mark Carney says publicly calling out other countries on issues like human rights is not helpful.

www.ctvnews.ca

He’s treating this as an experienced business leader. Know when you can make a difference and when it’s a waste of time. Because time is money.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

He'll likely flip flop in the near future, when convenient, as he is want to do.

 

[Cloud Cover]

He’s treating this as an experienced business leader. Know when you can make a difference and when it’s a waste of time. Because time is money.

Something something about borrowed time and borrowed money..

 

[brihard]

He'll likely flip flop in the near future, when convenient, as he is want to do.

What is it specifically that you think he’s going to flip flop on?

 

[Halifax Tar]

PM Carney is our general in the war on wokeness. Poilievre would not have had the audacity to pull this off. Not to mention Canadians would have lost their minds if a Conservative were behind it.

Canadians wouldn't have lost their minds until the establishment media spun them up because Conservative bad.

If you watch CBC you can physically see them squirm and twist in their reporting because they need to support a Liberal party that isn't doing Liberal things.

PMMC changed the game, like him or not. He blew up our traditional political landscape. And now everyone else is trying to re-establish where they fit in.

 

[brihard]

Canadians wouldn't have lost their minds until the establishment media spun them up because Conservative bad.

If you watch CBC you can physically see them squirm and twist in their reporting because they need to support a Liberal party that isn't doing Liberal things.

PMMC changed the game, like him or not. He blew up our traditional political landscape. And now everyone else is trying to re-establish where they fit in.

I think he’s recognized Canada’s spent years trying to be a shape of peg that doesn’t fit most of the holes out there in this day and age. I’m seeing a lot of him dragging government policy in a direction where Canada is more conformal with geopolitical reality, and trying to work with the world as it is, not how we might ideally wish it were.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think he’s recognized Canada’s spent years trying to be a shape of peg that doesn’t fit most of the holes out there in this day and age. I’m seeing a lot of him dragging government policy in a direction where Canada is more conformal with geopolitical reality, and trying to work with the world as it is, not how we might ideally wish it were.

Agreed. He is definitely trying to realign the country.

But I don't think we can discount how he's absolutely reshaped out political landscape. Everyone with the exception of the Bloc is trying figured out who and what the represent now. My biases against the LPC remain solidly in place. But I can recognize the pivot and that their current leader is trying to do things I agree with. My jig will still be a spirited when they are finally ousted.

The question for me is does the LPC have the intestinal fortitude and personalities to carry on with this course after he's finished ? Or do they revert to comfortable LPC grounds and pivot back ?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Agreed. He is definitely trying to realign the country.

But I don't think we can discount how he's absolutely reshaped out political landscape. Everyone with the exception of the Bloc is trying figured out who and what the represent now. My biases against the LPC remain solidly in place. But I can recognize the pivot and that their current leader is trying to do things I agree with. My jig will still be a spirited when they are finally ousted.

The question for me is does the LPC have the intestinal fortitude and personalities to carry on with this course after he's finished ? Or do they revert to comfortable LPC grounds and pivot back ?

Since we are speculating about the future......

What if they are ousted by a CPC party that scraps the majority of the CAF initiatives that Carney is pushing forward?

For the RCN, 15 Rivers becomes 3-4, 16-20 CDC's become 10-12, up to 12 Type 212CD's becomes 4-6, stick with the Cyclone and we stay at 2 JSS bringing us right back to 1996. Let's all sing 'Macarena!'
For the RCAF, we go back to Harpers 65 F35's, we scrap the GlobalEye altogether, buy a new version of the Griffon, cancel/sell 2-3 of the refuelers and don't get more Chinooks or Apache's.
For the CA, they scrap the tank from the CA completely, scrap the AD that's coming, rollback the timelines on all other new equipment initiatives or cut them entirely, like the sovereign munition capabilities.
And finally for the last 1-2 knock out punches - they roll back all the pay raises and freeze any further pay increases as part of a wider Public Service austerity plan to cut overall Government spending and 'waste' so that they can implement a tax cut that delivers an average tax savings of say 1,100$ to every family earning less than 280k a year. With that salary cut and pay increase freeze to all CAF members, recruiting plummets and retention in the CAF falls off the face of the earth.

Again, since we are speculating about the future.......

 

[Halifax Tar]

Since we are speculating about the future......

What if they are ousted by a CPC party that scraps the majority of the CAF initiatives that Carney is pushing forward?

I don't think they would. I think a dirty secret in CPC circles is on the defense file PMMC and the LPC are announcing the right things, and they just wish it was them making the announcements.

Holding the LPC to the timely and economical delivery of those announcements is where the game for the CPC should be.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I don't think they would. I think a dirty secret in CPC circles is on the defense file PMMC and the LPC are announcing the right things, and they just wish it was them making the announcements.

Holding the LPC to the timely and economical delivery of those announcements is where the game for the CPC should be.

I hope you're right.

Because from a CAF angle, Carney is doing everything, and more, that my pro-CAF mind can think of. I want to see 15 Rivers in the water, I want 16-20 CDC's in the water, I want 12 Type 212CD's, 4 JSS. I want to see 88+ F35's in the air and a greater role in a GCAP/or viable alternative, where substantial aviation and avionics capability resides here in Canada, along with more P8's and GlobalEye and A400M's. A CA that has another RegF Brigade standing, proper AD and modern armor and an expanded arty capability and drones, drones, drones. And, to something that sounds dear to you, a supply chain that is robust, well stocked and sourced locally as much as possible and available when called upon.

I want a CAF that is complimentary to a G7 country of 40million that is the 2nd largest land mass and the longest coastline in the world. Until I hear another party leader come out publicly that they will continue and enshrine all of the above, well.......

 

[Halifax Tar]

I hope you're right.

Because from a CAF angle, Carney is doing everything, and more, that my pro-CAF mind can think of. I want to see 15 Rivers in the water, I want 16-20 CDC's in the water, I want 12 Type 212CD's, 4 JSS. I want to see 88+ F35's in the air and a greater role in a GCAP/or viable alternative, where substantial aviation and avionics capability resides here in Canada, along with more P8's and GlobalEye and A400M's. A CA that has another RegF Brigade standing, proper AD and modern armor and an expanded arty capability and drones, drones, drones. And, to something that sounds dear to you, a supply chain that is robust, well stocked and sourced locally as much as possible and available when called upon.

I want a CAF that is complimentary to a G7 country of 40million that is the 2nd largest land mass and the longest coastline in the world. Until I hear another party leader come out publicly that they will continue and enshrine all of the above, well.......

I think you're preaching to the choir.

Again holding their, the LPCs, feet to the fire on the timely and economical delivery of the announcements is where the fight is for the CPC.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I think he’s recognized Canada’s spent years trying to be a shape of peg that doesn’t fit most of the holes out there in this day and age. I’m seeing a lot of him dragging government policy in a direction where Canada is more conformal with geopolitical reality, and trying to work with the world as it is, not how we might ideally wish it were.

As long as you're comfortable living in a New World Order, pseudo communist enviroment.

If anyone believes for a moment he's turned his back on his vision espoused in his book Values, I've got a bridge for you. You can accomplish almost anything, provided you ignore the otherworldly, staggering debt we have and have no problem spending billions more to add to that debt instead of paying it down. Smoke and mirrors at our expense while he runs around like a kid with a new unlimited credit card.

At least, thats how I see it, regardless.

YMMV.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Agreed. He is definitely trying to realign the country.

But I don't think we can discount how he's absolutely reshaped out political landscape. Everyone with the exception of the Bloc is trying figured out who and what the represent now. My biases against the LPC remain solidly in place. But I can recognize the pivot and that their current leader is trying to do things I agree with. My jig will still be a spirited when they are finally ousted.

The question for me is does the LPC have the intestinal fortitude and personalities to carry on with this course after he's finished ? Or do they revert to comfortable LPC grounds and pivot back ?

That would depend, partially, on how many liberal cronies they want to make millioaires.

 

[The Bread Guy]

He’s treating this as an experienced business leader. Know when you can make a difference and when it’s a waste of time. Because time and wasted effort and energy are money.

Added just a touch to your wise observation.

 

[brihard]

As long as you're comfortable living in a New World Order, pseudo communist enviroment.

If anyone believes for a moment he's turned his back on his vision espoused in his book Values, I've got a bridge for you. You can accomplish almost anything, provided you ignore the otherworldly, staggering debt we have and have no problem spending billions more to add to that debt instead of paying it down. Smoke and mirrors at our expense while he runs around like a kid with a new unlimited credit card.

At least, thats how I see it, regardless.

YMMV.

I will not be holding my breath for that bridge of yours to open.

I realize that since the election you view Carney as having transmogrified into being the Liberal monster that was actually under the bed calling the shots for Trudeau the whole time… Meanwhile, in the real world, the actual policy positions he’s advancing in stuff like trade, economics, defence, diplomatic relations, natural resources, energy, etc are there to be seen and discussed in real terms based on actual observable facts. If we’re heading towards communism under his watch, it’s a form of communism Marx, Engels et al would not have recognized. You’ll excuse me not wanting to join you in the histrionics.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I will not be holding my breath for that bridge of yours to open.

I realize that since the election you view Carney as having transmogrified into being the Liberal monster that was actually under the bed calling the shots for Trudeau the whole time… Meanwhile, in the real world, the actual policy positions he’s advancing in stuff like trade, economics, defence, diplomatic relations, natural resources, energy, etc are there to be seen and discussed in real terms based on actual observable facts. If we’re heading towards communism under his watch, it’s a form of communism Marx, Engels et al would not have recognized. You’ll excuse me not wanting to join you in the histrionics.

You're excused.

 

[Good2Golf]

As long as you're comfortable living in a New World Order, pseudo communist enviroment.

If anyone believes for a moment he's turned his back on his vision espoused in his book Values, I've got a bridge for you. You can accomplish almost anything, provided you ignore the otherworldly, staggering debt we have and have no problem spending billions more to add to that debt instead of paying it down. Smoke and mirrors at our expense while he runs around like a kid with a new unlimited credit card.

At least, thats how I see it, regardless.

YMMV.

I’m content enough for now to see him running a ship that is closer to my PC roots than the CPC is right now.

À chacun son propre goût…

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I’m content enough for now to see him running a ship that is closer to my PC roots than the CPC is right now.

À chacun son propre goût…

At what expense though? Are you willing to watch your grandchildren become destitute paying off our debt?

I'm glad I never fell into the trap of instant gratification overwhelming the future of my family. I've already made provisions for my grandson to own a house outright and a start with a good sized nest egg.

Like I said, any leader like carney, can make those billion dollar deals if they don’t care about our future finances or where the money is coming from. As long as we're getting everything on credit, might as well get some attack helicopters, a few regiments of tanks, maybe some rocket artillery. We're not paying for it, let's buy the store.

 

[Good2Golf]

At what expense though? Are you willing to watch your grandchildren become destitute paying off our debt?

I taught my son fiscal responsibility and living within one’s means with a buffer as well. He finished college with a modest amount of cash in the bank and as a millennial is doing an excellent job managing his finances, home, car. I’m confident that *any grandchildren will be equally responsible and in good shape. So I don’t expect to see any grandchildren of mine become destitute, so within my genetic nexus, I’ve set conditions as best as I can. I have little faith in that anyone else would be doing any better at this point, and frankly, I think we’d be worse off today taking a knee to 47.