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Well leave it up to our favourite military reporter to dig up the dirt:
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Columnists/850355.html
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Columnists/850355.html
Legendary Vandoos ‘do the job right'
- Thread starter 3rd Herd
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"Using phonetic repetition in the belief that they were learning how to say "Hello, how are you?" in French, the Afghans were overheard chanting "F- - - you, Vandoo" by an embedded journalist." One obviously an "embedded journalist" that shoulde be promptly dis-embedded for a couple of reasons"
"but those familiar with our army’s recent past know that the animosity between our anglophone and francophone combat units runs deeper than that. One of the reasons for this is that the senior brass has consistently oversold the Vandoos" According to most of the recent army history I have either read or written about yes the senior brass are part of the problem or should I say were part of the problem but DND also has a political side.
"either the Princess Patricia’s Light Infantry or the Royal Canadian Regiment, and yet neither of these units receives similarly fawning monikers in the national press." As I stated in a post awhile back we PPCLI do not need some journalist to promote us, at times we very good at self promotion. ;D As for the RCRs they aviod publication as the cannot afford lawsuits from farmers whose chickens stop laying once it is rummored they are now in the AO
"should look to the Canadian example. Rather than simply herding together Afghan recruits into one single battalion, why not separate them into sub-units that allow them to train and fight with members of their own language and ethnicity" A BIG CONTRADICTION HERE FOLKS
"but those familiar with our army’s recent past know that the animosity between our anglophone and francophone combat units runs deeper than that. One of the reasons for this is that the senior brass has consistently oversold the Vandoos" According to most of the recent army history I have either read or written about yes the senior brass are part of the problem or should I say were part of the problem but DND also has a political side.
"either the Princess Patricia’s Light Infantry or the Royal Canadian Regiment, and yet neither of these units receives similarly fawning monikers in the national press." As I stated in a post awhile back we PPCLI do not need some journalist to promote us, at times we very good at self promotion. ;D As for the RCRs they aviod publication as the cannot afford lawsuits from farmers whose chickens stop laying once it is rummored they are now in the AO
"should look to the Canadian example. Rather than simply herding together Afghan recruits into one single battalion, why not separate them into sub-units that allow them to train and fight with members of their own language and ethnicity" A BIG CONTRADICTION HERE FOLKS
Dare I say it, but well done Scott Taylor. Finally someone has spoken the truth in the media. As for the 'f__k you Vandoo', I remember tslking to and RCR guy who relieved us who was hoping that some back water Afghan village would acknowledge him with a 'Hello chi...f..ker'. Lets not be one sided and think that the Vandoos do not make fun of other people as well. They got us really good one time during a change in units in a theater when they crapped in our ammo tins, or sold our stuff on the black market. Man, those were good ones, they really got us good. PUNKED for sure.
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070730.wgauthier30/BNStory/Front
The Usual Disclaimer:
Vandoos won't be shielded, military says
PAUL KORING
From Monday's Globe and Mail
July 30, 2007 at 1:17 AM EDT
KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN — The commander of all Canadian expeditionary forces overseas directly confronted and rejected Sunday a whispering campaign suggesting the government has quietly requested the Royal 22nd Regiment be held back from the worst fighting, so as to avoid casualties and inflame anti-war sentiment in Quebec.
It's a suggestion that deeply offends many in the regiment, known as the Vandoos, now arriving in Kandahar.
Lieutenant-General Michel Gauthier said Sunday it's just not true.
“It would matter not one bit whether it would be Vandoos coming into the mission area or Patricias coming into the mission area or more Royals coming into the mission area,'' he said, referring colloquially to the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and the Royal Canadian Regiment, both of which have already fought tours in southern Afghanistan.
And he flatly rejected suggestions that there was political interference from the Harper government shaping the role of the Vandoos to avoid casualties.
“Categorically, absolutely not,'' he said. “I have been given full freedom to decide how I am going to do this job and how I am going to employ forces in the mission area.''
“It honestly makes no difference to me,'' he said. “I don't consider ‘well the troops are coming from one particular province and therefore I will tailor the tasks in a certain way.'”
However, the general did confirm that the Vandoos will spend more effort on training and mentoring the growing number of Afghan National Army soldiers than the outgoing battle group.
That shift to increased training has long been a central element to the Canadian and NATO long-term campaign plans in Afghanistan.
The shift was not taken “with the objective of us not fighting any more, because we are going to have to fight for the foreseeable future,'' Gen. Gauthier said.
In a series of opinion polls since the mission began, about half those surveyed nationwide have been against the decision to send Canadian forces to Afghanistan, while about two-thirds of Quebeckers have been opposed.
The military is hoping returning Quebec-based soldiers will help increase support for the mission, by talking about their experiences to schools and community groups.
The Usual Disclaimer:
Vandoos won't be shielded, military says
PAUL KORING
From Monday's Globe and Mail
July 30, 2007 at 1:17 AM EDT
KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN — The commander of all Canadian expeditionary forces overseas directly confronted and rejected Sunday a whispering campaign suggesting the government has quietly requested the Royal 22nd Regiment be held back from the worst fighting, so as to avoid casualties and inflame anti-war sentiment in Quebec.
It's a suggestion that deeply offends many in the regiment, known as the Vandoos, now arriving in Kandahar.
Lieutenant-General Michel Gauthier said Sunday it's just not true.
“It would matter not one bit whether it would be Vandoos coming into the mission area or Patricias coming into the mission area or more Royals coming into the mission area,'' he said, referring colloquially to the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry and the Royal Canadian Regiment, both of which have already fought tours in southern Afghanistan.
And he flatly rejected suggestions that there was political interference from the Harper government shaping the role of the Vandoos to avoid casualties.
“Categorically, absolutely not,'' he said. “I have been given full freedom to decide how I am going to do this job and how I am going to employ forces in the mission area.''
“It honestly makes no difference to me,'' he said. “I don't consider ‘well the troops are coming from one particular province and therefore I will tailor the tasks in a certain way.'”
However, the general did confirm that the Vandoos will spend more effort on training and mentoring the growing number of Afghan National Army soldiers than the outgoing battle group.
That shift to increased training has long been a central element to the Canadian and NATO long-term campaign plans in Afghanistan.
The shift was not taken “with the objective of us not fighting any more, because we are going to have to fight for the foreseeable future,'' Gen. Gauthier said.
In a series of opinion polls since the mission began, about half those surveyed nationwide have been against the decision to send Canadian forces to Afghanistan, while about two-thirds of Quebeckers have been opposed.
The military is hoping returning Quebec-based soldiers will help increase support for the mission, by talking about their experiences to schools and community groups.
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Im sure everyone has a story about a run-in with Vandoo soldiers, or Quebecois soldiers in general, but I dont think we should advertise it here.
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Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure you will) but the resentment here is very thinly veiled? I read Scott Taylor's no-holds-barred article and I had no idea that those three events took place, except for the Airborne incident, but I realize it was the 22nd's. I try to go by the old adage 'if you can't say something nice, don't ...' but I have never heard a positive thing ever said about the Vandoos outside the media, and have had the displeasure of being cooped up with some of them in a reform school gymnasium during the ice storm of '98. I couldn't have imagined a regiment that laissez-faire about their approach to the situation, and the entire scene was one huge frat party-esque with soldiers trying to seduce the female patients (read sexually harassed), defecating in our kit bags or cots, and trying to steal one of our headdresses for a regimental souvenir. But the thing that really got my goat was their complete disdain for Canada and English-speaking people, which was the case of our entire regiment. I realize separatists politicians don’t see the irony of drawing a federal pay check, so it came as no surprise that the Vandoos wouldn't be too choosy either.
Just my opinion, and an opinion formed from what I saw!
Just my opinion, and an opinion formed from what I saw!
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Col.Steiner said:Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure you will) but the resentment here is very thinly veiled? I read Scott Taylor's no-holds-barred article and I had no idea that those three events took place, except for the Airborne incident, but I realize it was the 22nd's. I try to go by the old adage 'if you can't say something nice, don't ...' but I have never heard a positive thing ever said about the Vandoos outside the media, and have had the displeasure of being cooped up with some of them in a reform school gymnasium during the ice storm of '98. I couldn't have imagined a regiment that laissez-faire about their approach to the situation, and the entire scene was one huge frat party-esque with soldiers trying to seduce the female patients (read sexually harassed), defecating in our kit bags or cots, and trying to steal one of our headdresses for a regimental souvenir. But the thing that really got my goat was their complete disdain for Canada and English-speaking people, which was the case of our entire regiment. I realize separatists politicians don’t see the irony of drawing a federal pay check, so it came as no surprise that the Vandoos wouldn't be too choosy either.
Just my opinion, and an opinion formed from what I saw!
Whoa!!! Slow down.
You know what they say about if you can't post something nice ....
Col Steiner eh?? A The Eagle has Landed Fan are we??
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What makes the "vandoos" so legendary?? I'm having trouble figuring out why they are titled this everytime I see or hear of them brought up. if they so "legendary" than what are the PPCLI? the RCR?? JW cause I see that these 2 organizations seem to have been taking most the tours.....casualties......and my upmost respect. Not trying to start a fuss or be rude, just a straight out question.
Col.Steiner said:Correct me if I am wrong (I am sure you will) but the resentment here is very thinly veiled? I read Scott Taylor's no-holds-barred article and I had no idea that those three events took place, except for the Airborne incident, but I realize it was the 22nd's. I try to go by the old adage 'if you can't say something nice, don't ...' but I have never heard a positive thing ever said about the Vandoos outside the media, and have had the displeasure of being cooped up with some of them in a reform school gymnasium during the ice storm of '98. I couldn't have imagined a regiment that laissez-faire about their approach to the situation, and the entire scene was one huge frat party-esque with soldiers trying to seduce the female patients (read sexually harassed), defecating in our kit bags or cots, and trying to steal one of our headdresses for a regimental souvenir. But the thing that really got my goat was their complete disdain for Canada and English-speaking people, which was the case of our entire regiment. I realize separatists politicians don’t see the irony of drawing a federal pay check, so it came as no surprise that the Vandoos wouldn't be too choosy either.
Just my opinion, and an opinion formed from what I saw!
Just an FYI, it's common courtesy around here to flesh out your forum profile a bit more, so people have a better idea who they're speaking to. Thanks.
Sounds like a lack of effective leadership in that situation...
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Oh, and I'll just add that I spent 6 months tasked with the VanDoos in Goose Bay during the low-level flight protests to perform the searches on any females who were detained.
I was the only female. I'm English. They treated me perfectly fine. There were one or two asshats of course, but hey ... every Unit has to have a couple of them.
And that's my opinion, from someone who's also worked with them.
Everyone has their idiots.
I was the only female. I'm English. They treated me perfectly fine. There were one or two asshats of course, but hey ... every Unit has to have a couple of them.
And that's my opinion, from someone who's also worked with them.
Everyone has their idiots.
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and I do think think there is a straight answer. I have seen the Van Doos described as "legendary" in some of the CBC archives going back to WW2. It would be nice to have one of their Regimental history types answer this one.Crafty884 said:
Edit to add: The descriptor "fighting" Van Doos also seems to have some past era connotations, possibly Korea.
edit to the edit: Our favourite military expert and reporter missed one in his report on the Van Doos. Anyone old enough to remember a Cpl. and SMG ?
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Yes, I suppose it just appeared they were all asshats! I guess it might have been the orchestrated chansons they had written for us têtes carrées that gave me that impression.ArmyVern said:
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3rd Herd said:
Wasn't he a Sup Tech assigned to the VanDoos?
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Special indeed....special needs, special bus, special all around 
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Sorry but did anyone else catch this bit,
"When one factors in that the casualty count of 66 dead and 260 wounded to date has been borne solely by these anglophone regiments"
"the combat operations in Afghanistan have been conducted by either the Princess Patricia’s Light Infantry or the Royal Canadian Regiment"
By "borne solely by these anglophone regiments" the writer is referring to the RCR and PPCLI, how about the RCD's and others? I can very much understand why you guys get frustrated at the media. Apparently Canada has 3 Regiments, RCR, PPCLI and the Vandoo's. Sorry to say it guys, but Armour no longer exists in the CF according to this acticle.
Good on him for trying to tell some of the truth but its kind of ironic that in showing the lack of equality he also shows a lack of equality.
You dont have to be a grunt to fight overseas. Black Hatters are fighting and dying too.
"When one factors in that the casualty count of 66 dead and 260 wounded to date has been borne solely by these anglophone regiments"
"the combat operations in Afghanistan have been conducted by either the Princess Patricia’s Light Infantry or the Royal Canadian Regiment"
By "borne solely by these anglophone regiments" the writer is referring to the RCR and PPCLI, how about the RCD's and others? I can very much understand why you guys get frustrated at the media. Apparently Canada has 3 Regiments, RCR, PPCLI and the Vandoo's. Sorry to say it guys, but Armour no longer exists in the CF according to this acticle.
Good on him for trying to tell some of the truth but its kind of ironic that in showing the lack of equality he also shows a lack of equality.
You dont have to be a grunt to fight overseas. Black Hatters are fighting and dying too.
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Agreed Hale
But I can semi forgive him as those RCD, Medics and others have dies under the auspice of either a PPCLI Battle Group or an RCR one. So I can semi see how it is that it would get written that way. Doesn't make it right though nor do I agree with it. And Really if Scott Taylor is such and "EXPERT" on the military then you would think he would be able to figure out how it all works eh? ahhh well cest la vie mes amis!
But I can semi forgive him as those RCD, Medics and others have dies under the auspice of either a PPCLI Battle Group or an RCR one. So I can semi see how it is that it would get written that way. Doesn't make it right though nor do I agree with it. And Really if Scott Taylor is such and "EXPERT" on the military then you would think he would be able to figure out how it all works eh? ahhh well cest la vie mes amis!
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Thats what i find ironic i think, he's trying to show how he knows more then others and just ends up proving that he too is ignorant of the facts. Good on him though, like i said before, for actually caring. I think thats why he's done this, because he actually cares, and thats a good thing. It'd just be really nice if he didnt lump the entire efforts of the Canadian forces in Afghanistan under RCR and PPCLI.
Hopefully in his next article he can correct this and send a bit of loving to the rest of you blokes and ladies.
Bold & Swift.
Hopefully in his next article he can correct this and send a bit of loving to the rest of you blokes and ladies.
Bold & Swift.
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So many experts, but so few solutions....
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