Legit question about snipers

[Jason Jarvis]

Taking Mike‘s peacemaking as inspiration, I have a legitimate question about the use of snipers in the Canadian Army:

"How long have snipers been around as a official specialty, and what factors have influenced their training and deployment?"

While I realize that Canadian soldiers have been renowned for their marksmanship since at least the mid-1700s, have they always been an official part of the infantry?

While Canadian snipers were active in both World Wars and Korea, were there snipers in South Africa, or just "marksmen"?

:soldier:

How much did the US experience in Vietnam influence Canadian attitudes toward sniping, or the British in Northern Ireland?

What provided the catalyst for the investment in our sniper training system in the early to mid-1990s? How did it get so good so quickly?

Did the army learn about the value of snipers from our Balkan experiences?

:sniper:

Or is this simply a fad that is going to fade away in a few years?

 

[OLD SCHOOL]

Young man you are officer material.This looks like a research paper.
Lots of stuff to read out there so absorb it and enjoy.Sorry,I am not mush of a historian but start at the Boer War and go from there.

 

[Jason Jarvis]

Young man you are officer material.This looks like a research paper.

Coming from you, Old School, I‘m not so sure that‘s a compliment!

That said, does anyone on the board know much about the army‘s use of snipers since the Boer War? Michael Dorosh, where are you?

 

[OLD SCHOOL]

Compliment.Google search your way to happiness. :sniper:

 

[Spr.Earl]

If they told you they would have to kill you

 

[Garry]

IIRC the Sniper is an Infantry MOC.

The "specialty" (qualification, like driver, MG gunner, etc) has been around since the late 60‘s. (not sure, just seem to remember...)

Prior to this, the Canadian Army (WWI and WWII) had snipers, but used whatever soldier the platoon Sgt wanted. The Pl Sgt determined the unit sniper based on two important criteria: the soldier‘s ability to shoot, and his ability to run. They were an essential part of trench warfare, accounting for a large part of both disrupting enemy Ops, inflicting casualties, and gaining intel.

The American Army had lost the expertise prior to Vietnam, and an enterprising pair of Officer‘s brought it back. They did this through a concerted effort of campaigning senior Officers, and attending other countries sniper programs (Read Canada and others) They succeeded largely due to the skills and honour of a young Sgt named Carlos Hathcock. FWIW- when the Canadian snipers in Afghanistan set the "new record" for longest kill, they broke Gunny Hathcocks record from Vietnam...a record that had stood for ages.

So, Virginia, the US Army learned how to snipe from Canadians (and a little from the Aussies)...we‘re so good because we have good soldiers, period. We don‘t have enough to specialise, so all soldiers must do a little of everything. As well, our command and control structure encourages independant thought and actions.

We have good people, who do good work. They‘re dedicated professionals, and will continue to gather intel and disrupt enemy plans for a long time.

PS- all this info is on the web. Want to be like our canadian soldiers?...then start figuring stuff out for your self....then come here and tell us what you‘ve learned...I‘d love to hear about it!

Cheers-Garry

 

[Jason Jarvis]

Yeah, yeah, it‘s ALL on the web!

Unfortunately, not everyone uses META tags or includes keywords in their HTML. That would certainly make life easier.

That said, I will make this a little project of mine and I will report back to the forum with the results of my recce.

Now where did I put that ghillie suit. . . .

 

[Danjanou]

Garry, hate to tell ya but Sgt Carlos Hathcock was a Marine and last time I checked most of them don‘t like being mistaken for US Army types.

Incidentally his biography Marine Sniper 93 Confirmed Kills by Charles Henderson (Stein & Day NY 1986) is an good reference source on sniper doctrine (the biography lists some excellent books etc.) as well as an interesting read. Hathcock had the record for longest confirmed kill until a 3 PPCLI sniper beat it in Afghanistan.

USMC Sniper doctrine and employment in Vietnam differed significantly from that of US Army in terms of weapons used, numbers of snipers and overall mission etc.

Peter Senich‘s The Long Range War is another good source for USMC and USA Sniper doctrine in South East Asia. Stephen Hunter states he used it and Hatchcock as references for his "Bob the Nailer" sniper novels.

BTW I‘m curious as to where you got the

"prior to this, the Canadian Army (WWI and WWII) had snipers, but used whatever soldier the platoon Sgt wanted. The Pl Sgt determined the unit sniper based on two important criteria: the soldier‘s ability to shoot, and his ability to run."

The Canadian Army had snipers on the TOE of Infantry Bn‘s in WWII. They were assigned to the Scout (recce) platoon.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Garry I find your post interesting regarding how we taught the US the art of sniping may I ask you source as I would like to read up on it?

 

[Jungle]

Snipers died a slow death in the CDN Army after Korea. We didn‘t even have sniper rifles in the early 70s. The CF bought the Parker Hale (C3)shortly before the 1976 olympics and ran what would amounted to a marksman course. The Sniper program we have now started in the late 80s, when the Infantry School sent instructors to the USMC Scout/ Sniper school to qualify up to instr level. The first CDN basic Sniper course of the new era was run in Gagetown in 1989; that is the course I was on. I ended up teaching on a basic serial in an area Battle School in 1996.

 

[Garry]

Danjanou- of course he was a Marine- thanks for setting me straight.

Ex- Dragoon- The book Danjou refers to (Marine Sniper) discusses the process of bringing sniping back into the US Military, and mentions Canada‘s sniping program as a great source of information.

Re choosing snipers: Based on the autobiography of George MacDonald Frasier (the author of the Flashman series)titled "Quartered Safe Out Here" and his experiences as the unit sniper. Granted he‘s British, but I believe we followed Brit doctrine. FWIW, THE best "war" book I‘ve ever read.

Glad to see the 031‘s finally make it to this thread to sort us out.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Thanks Garry