Letter from Kandahar: Week 18

[Franko]

I do not appreciate that tone. Maybe her blog entry was not really exciting and didn't bring what you would like to read to the table, but that can not justify your response.

Why not? Do you really think that anyone cares about the fact that she has to go without AC while the troops are out in the FOBs without a shower for days on end. It's a bullshyte article and she's bellyaching for something that most troops didn't see in theater at all. It's called a nicety, not a must have.

If you know her personaly, you should know that she is accutely aware that her living condition in KAF, even without air conditioning, are nothing to really complain about. She wasn't whinning and didn't dwel on it.

Yes she was plain and simple. "Poor me toughing it out here in KAF" syndrome.

As other here have alluded to, there are many other blogs by similar types crying a river over such meaningless things and I, for one, am tired of hearing about it.

Yes I know her....and her complaints didn't surprise me in the least.

Regards

 

[RHFC_piper]

Read this today while sitting in the 32 HSC Det London, waiting for paperwork.

You want good reporting, read this issue.
Maple Leaf

Covers all the bases; PRT, OMLT, NSE, and battle group... as well as some other good stuff.

As much as I knock The Maple Leaf, the articles in this Special issue were a very good read.


I know this is a little off topic, but it seems as though this thread has diverted from "read this" to "Better reporting elsewhere".... so, there it is.

 

[punisher_6d]

I know this is a little off topic, but it seems as though this thread has diverted from "read this" to "Better reporting elsewhere".... so, there it is.

I think I started it with "You really need to read the rest of them to get a true taste of the senseless junk the Canadian Army passes off as "news" on their website." .......  :

 

[RHFC_piper]

I think I started it with "You really need to read the rest of them to get a true taste of the senseless junk the Canadian Army passes off as "news" on their website." .......  :

My bad... it was really just a combination of "read this" and "better reporting elsewhere", which has evolved into "Hey, here's how to get better stories" and is now "look... I found better stories."


Credit where credit's due. 

 

[punisher_6d]

Nevva bad, RHFC.  All contributions here are welcome! ..........

 

[punisher_6d]

It get's even better:  Letter from Kandahar:  Week 19 .........

"Sunday morning bright and early my friend Lee and I had to go pick garbage up on the north side of the airfield. Normally not a challenging task however, considering the hot, hot temperature, high level of humidity and not a stitch of shade I sight, it was horrible. I went though 5 bottles of water and didn't even feel an urge to pee. We were out there for close to 4 hours! "

It just blows me away how they can pass this off as "news" from Afghanistan?  :

 

[Sig_Des]

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=2176

From the website description of the letter's author.

It seems natural for her to want to be where the action is.

KAF is NOT where the action is...And yes...it's hot...and humid...there was 4 hours of garbage picking.

I'd rather hear about the Vtechs who are hauling out engines out of vehicles....or the guys at the FOBs. Yes, hearing about day to day life at KAF might be OK for a couple letters...but 19 of them is a bit much. I would have rathered they have a different writer each week, a writer in a different location and job.

Like RBD said, KAF has a lot of Nice-to-haves...like showers, AC, a Tims, a Dutch sit-down restaurant....these are not MUST-haves, though...and I don't like hearing people complaining about losing it.

I never was so angry as when I heard someone complaining about a lobster tail at the DFAC in KAF.

 

[Roy Harding]

It get's even better:  Letter from Kandahar:  Week 19 .........

"Sunday morning bright and early my friend Lee and I had to go pick garbage up on the north side of the airfield. Normally not a challenging task however, considering the hot, hot temperature, high level of humidity and not a stitch of shade I sight, it was horrible. I went though 5 bottles of water and didn't even feel an urge to pee. We were out there for close to 4 hours! "

It just blows me away how they can pass this off as "news" from Afghanistan?  :

I understand where you're coming from - and I agree with your assessment of the "Letters from Kandahar", at least from the perspective of a soldier who's "been there, done that".

HOWEVER (isn't there always a "however") - consider the intended audience.  I don't think these "letters from Kandahar" are meant for the consumption of serving members - I think they are more properly aimed at the average civilian.

I've been retired for three years now, and my last tour was APOLLO Roto 0, so I have an understanding of the climactic conditions prevalent in Kandahar (we spelled it Qandahar - but who cares).  In my three years as a civvie, I have been shocked at how provincial and self-centred my fellow Canadians are.  I can't believe that I spent the majority of my adult life protecting these idiots.

IMHO, the "Letters from Kandahar" series is meant to appeal to the vast majority of Canadians who HAVEN'T been there.  The concept of drinking five litres of water and not having to pee is foreign to most Canadians.  I don't know the author of these Letters, but I think I have a fairly good understanding of what a "princess" she may be - however - I wish her "Letters" were promulgated in the MSM, her audience is NOT serving members of the CF, but the clueless civvies who are the majority of our population.

The only problem I see with the "Letters" series is that they languish on the DND site, where they are read only by serving soldiers, and are not pushed out to the MSM by the Public Affairs folks - I think they'd appeal to many civvies, regardless their lack of relevance to serving (and former) soldiers.

It may be that they ARE published in the MSM somewhere, and I've missed them, but I doubt it.  I'm a fairly well-informed consumer of dailies from across the country.

Bottom line, I guess, is that in my opinion, these "Letters" are not meant to be "news" - they're meant to be "human interest", but our Public Affairs folks haven't pushed them hard enough to get them published anywhere but the DND site.

 

[RHFC_piper]

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/6_1_1.asp?id=2176
KAF is NOT where the action is...And yes...it's hot...and humid...there was 4 hours of garbage picking.

Well... at least not from this perspective.  There are plenty of important things going on in KAF, but those involved (as I've said before) may not be able, or have time to write about it.

I'd rather hear about the Vtechs who are hauling out engines out of vehicles....or the guys at the FOBs. Yes, hearing about day to day life at KAF might be OK for a couple letters...but 19 of them is a bit much. I would have rathered they have a different writer each week, a writer in a different location and job.

Reference the issue of Maple Leaf I posted;  There were some great stories in there from NSE and Role 3 MMU.  The NSE report talked about what a day in the life of a V-Tech is like and how they do their jobs over there... Pretty Important job, I might add. especially since the entire battle group rolls on their work.  And the story about the Role 3 MMU was excellent; It discussed the fact that it had the only (or one of the only) CT scanning machine in the Province and  how they have to struggle to help the soldiers and the local civilians.... Awesome story. Should be published publicly. 

There are plenty of stories in KAF to fill 6 months of a blog... Not to mention the other organizations outside the wire.  But you can't blame the author much, she's just writing.

Like RBD said, KAF has a lot of Nice-to-haves...like showers, AC, a Tims, a Dutch sit-down restaurant....these are not MUST-haves, though...and I don't like hearing people complaining about losing it.

I never was so angry as when I heard someone complaining about a lobster tail at the DFAC in KAF.

Dutch sit down restaurant?  Man... gold...  I want to take my leave in KAF.  All they need is a pool.  I wasn't there long enough to see anything other than Burger king and timies (total 3 days in KAF).

 

[Sig_Des]

Reference the issue of Maple Leaf I posted;  There were some great stories in there from NSE and Role 3 MMU.   The NSE report talked about what a day in the life of a V-Tech is like and how they do their jobs over there... Pretty Important job, I might add. especially since the entire battle group rolls on their work.  And the story about the Role 3 MMU was excellent; It discussed the fact that it had the only (or one of the only) CT scanning machine in the Province and  how they have to struggle to help the soldiers and the local civilians.... Awesome story. Should be published publicly. 

sounds like more interesting reading to me. Have to give it a look.

Dutch sit down restaurant?  Man... gold...  I want to take my leave in KAF.  All they need is a pool.   I wasn't there long enough to see anything other than Burger king and timies (total 3 days in KAF).

Fairly recent. I think it opened during the 2 RCR Roto. I never went, but the line-ups were huge, and apparently they had real milkshakes...

 

[Dissident]

Fairly recent. I think it opened during the 2 RCR Roto. I never went, but the line-ups were huge, and apparently they had real milkshakes...

North side of the boardwalk. Big line up at times and the food always take a while (I guess they make everything fresh). I'm not a fan of the whole decoration theme they have, but at least it doesn't look like another prefab building. Food is generaly good and the prices are very reasonable. Good place to go when you have time to kill with friends.

 

[RHFC_piper]

Jeez... If the army wont send me back (which seems like the case...) I think I might go back a CFPSA staff...  KAF is a good go for a war zone...  Hell, its a good go for any kinda zone.

Real milk shakes... man.

 

[punisher_6d]

Bottom line, I guess, is that in my opinion, these "Letters" are not meant to be "news" - they're meant to be "human interest", but our Public Affairs folks haven't pushed them hard enough to get them published anywhere but the DND site.

Roy, wake up and smell the cappuccino!  The DND site, and the Army one is a pretty darn popular one on the Internetz.  Gazillions of hits per day.  These kind of articles (19 of them so far) give the general public a view that our troops are busy planning their days with massages, manicures and Pizza Hut visits.  Read all 19 and you'll get a true sense of what I'm talking about.  I might be able to stomach one or two, but 19 with little focus about what goes on outside the wire?  Surely, there are some capable writers out there in the Infantry???  Sadly, they're probably too busy doing the real field work over in Afghanistan to be able to write garbage like this.

 

[Roy Harding]

Roy, wake up and smell the cappuccino!  The DND site, and the Army one is a pretty darn popular one on the Internetz.  Gazillions of hits per day.  These kind of articles (19 of them so far) give the general public a view that our troops are busy planning their days with massages, manicures and Pizza Hut visits.  Read all 19 and you'll get a true sense of what I'm talking about.  I might be able to stomach one or two, but 19 with little focus about what goes on outside the wire?  Surely, there are some capable writers out there in the Infantry???  Sadly, they're probably too busy doing the real field work over in Afghanistan to be able to write garbage like this.

I understand what you're saying - but I would differ with your assessment of "who" is hitting the DND and Army sites.  Numbers prove nothing - I'm on those sites every couple of days or so myself.  I really think that folks who hit the DND site are ALREADY cognizant of what the military has done in Afghanistan (or any other place you might like to name).  People (in my uneducated and amateur guess) who go to the DND site are either potential recruits, serving members, or (like me) retired FOGs who like to keep informed - the site does NOT appeal to the "average" Canadian, and exposure there does NOT equate to exposure in the mainstream print media.

I stand by my assertion that these "fluff" pieces need to be placed in the "Lifestyles" pages of major dailies - we are agreed that they do not constitute "news" in any way, shape, or form.

And you're right - those outside the wire are probably too busy to contribute news stories, no matter how talented they may be.


Roy

 

[RHFC_piper]

I understand what you're saying - but I would differ with your assessment of "who" is hitting the DND and Army sites.  Numbers prove nothing - I'm on those sites every couple of days or so myself.  I really think that folks who hit the DND site are ALREADY cognizant of what the military has done in Afghanistan (or any other place you might like to name).  People (in my uneducated and amateur guess) who go to the DND site are either potential recruits, serving members, or (like me) retired FOGs who like to keep informed - the site does NOT appeal to the "average" Canadian, and exposure there does NOT equate to exposure in the mainstream print media.

I stand by my assertion that these "fluff" pieces need to be placed in the "Lifestyles" pages of major dailies - we are agreed that they do not constitute "news" in any way, shape, or form.

And you're right - those outside the wire are probably too busy to contribute news stories, no matter how talented they may be.


Roy

I'm going to have to agree with Punisher on this one.  I'm sure a lot of curious civilians hit the Forces.ca and DND.ca pages, especially with all the ad campaigns going on everywhere, and all that is in the media. 
But you are right that reports from troops should be published in more public news media, but not this tripe...  It would be interesting to see a regular column in a major (or even local) news paper from troops in the field... and not from PAFFO's or senior officers, but from the common soldier on the ground. It would put a face on the operation, and it would seem less bureaucratic than a report from a government official or senior officer.  (I hate to use the term) Very grass routes.  But of course, all releases would have to pass OpSec and PerSec screening. 

And as for the business of the troops in the field;  They may not have computer access, but a lot of troops still keep journals and find time to write letters.  A friend of mine wrote in his journal everyday, even when we were in the midst of Op Medusa... unfortunately, his journal was destroyed when his sections LAV was blown up in Panjwayi... but he started another one shortly after.
The point is, there is a lot of "down time" outside the wire (for the most part), enough to write something.  And these writings could easily be past back through the supply and mail routes to KAF and then back to Canada for editing, revisions and publication.  Of course, this would mean the soldier who wrote the piece would have to accept the edits to his work without seeing the end copy if it were to be published as it happened (which could also be an issue, but that's what editors are for.)

Anyway, in summation; Soldiers stories should be published... but...  These ones just don't do the mission justice. 

 

[Roy Harding]

I'm going to have to agree with Punisher on this one.  I'm sure a lot of curious civilians hit the Forces.ca and DND.ca pages, especially with all the ad campaigns going on everywhere, and all that is in the media. 

I hear ya, RHFC_Piper - but I disagree regarding who is "hitting" the DND site.  Neither one of us has empirical evidence to support our point of view (unless YOU do - I certainly don't), so I'm happy to "agree to disagree" on that point.

But you are right that reports from troops should be published in more public news media, but not this tripe...  It would be interesting to see a regular column in a major (or even local) news paper from troops in the field... and not from PAFFO's or senior officers, but from the common soldier on the ground. It would put a face on the operation, and it would seem less bureaucratic than a report from a government official or senior officer.  (I hate to use the term) Very grass routes.  But of course, all releases would have to pass OpSec and PerSec screening.

To be honest, I enjoyed Christie Blatchford's columns when she was there.  I've also been following Don Martin's columns (he just left a couple of days ago) - but these two are professional writers, from whom one expects a decent product.  I agree that "grass roots" reports would be great - but for the life of me, I can't figure out how a grunt out in the field would find the time to do a professional job of it on a regular basis.  I recall some blogs in the past (I don't remember by who off the top of my head, but could look them up if you're interested), but they quickly fell off, no reason given on the blogs, but I suspect because of time constraints.

And as for the business of the troops in the field;  They may not have computer access, but a lot of troops still keep journals and find time to write letters.  A friend of mine wrote in his journal everyday, even when we were in the midst of Op Medusa... unfortunately, his journal was destroyed when his sections LAV was blown up in Panjwayi... but he started another one shortly after.
The point is, there is a lot of "down time" outside the wire (for the most part), enough to write something.  And these writings could easily be past back through the supply and mail routes to KAF and then back to Canada for editing, revisions and publication.  Of course, this would mean the soldier who wrote the piece would have to accept the edits to his work without seeing the end copy if it were to be published as it happened (which could also be an issue, but that's what editors are for.)

You're right about all this.  My wife still has all the letters I wrote to her from Iran in '88/89 (before computers in the field)  - I can't believe the tripe I found time to write, but I'm fairly certain there may have been interest in my observations in that situation, at that time.  The problem is time and accountability.  Troops can't be expected to have time to write a regular feature - perhaps "one offs" may be managed in the way you envisage above.  I know I'd find such articles interesting - but I'm not sure most of our fellow citizens would be as enthralled as you and I.

Anyway, in summation; Soldiers stories should be published... but...  These ones just don't do the mission justice. 

You're right - these articles DON'T do the mission justice, from the point of view of an "outside the wire" warrior.  They ARE, however, a reflection of things from the point of view of a REMF in Kandahar.  And that's not a bad thing.  My only question (as a former REMF) is how she finds the time to write them - but that's a question best left to the Supt Clk.

To sum up - it is my opinion that these "letters" are NOT a reflection of what troops outside the wire are experiencing - but they could be a useful tool in educating the Canadian public regarding what the support troops are doing - they need to pushed by the PAff folks onto the Lifestyles pages of major dailies.  I DON'T think that links to these "letters" on the DND site constitutes "exposure" in the same way that publication in the MSM print editions would.

FWIW,


Roy

 

[RHFC_piper]

I hear ya, RHFC_Piper - but I disagree regarding who is "hitting" the DND site.  Neither one of us has empirical evidence to support our point of view (unless YOU do - I certainly don't),

That information is available through the server log... at least it would show how many hits the site gets that are not from a DND source... but that's about it.  I have a lot of civilian friends who have wondered on to the DND and Forces site, most likely due to their association with me, but consider how many average civilians have family in the forces, close or extended, or have an interest in what's going on in the forces and/or over seas.  It's not the majority, but it's a lot. 
I agree that it isn't as prevalent a media source as print, TV or general media outlets websites.

I'm happy to "agree to disagree" on that point.

I don't agree to that.    J/K. 

To be honest, I enjoyed Christie Blatchford's columns when she was there.  I've also been following Don Martin's columns (he just left a couple of days ago) - but these two are professional writers, from whom one expects a decent product.  I agree that "grass roots" reports would be great - but for the life of me, I can't figure out how a grunt out in the field would find the time to do a professional job of it on a regular basis.  I recall some blogs in the past (I don't remember by who off the top of my head, but could look them up if you're interested), but they quickly fell off, no reason given on the blogs, but I suspect because of time constraints.

You're right about all this.  My wife still has all the letters I wrote to her from Iran in '88/89 (before computers in the field)  - I can't believe the tripe I found time to write, but I'm fairly certain there may have been interest in my observations in that situation, at that time.  The problem is time and accountability.  Troops can't be expected to have time to write a regular feature - perhaps "one offs" may be managed in the way you envisage above.  I know I'd find such articles interesting - but I'm not sure most of our fellow citizens would be as enthralled as you and I.

Keep in mind that a lot of the blogs from overseas were quelled through the CoC due to OpSec and PerSec issues... and even when guidelines were put in place (CANFORGEN 136/06) many troops were advised to discontinue blogging. 

But you are correct; troops in the field can't be burdened with having to produce an article for regular publication, but having pieces wrote by many different soldiers and submitted on a regular basis would just as good, if not better... It would give perspective on all aspects of the mission.

You're right - these articles DON'T do the mission justice, from the point of view of an "outside the wire" warrior.  They ARE, however, a reflection of things from the point of view of a REMF in Kandahar.  And that's not a bad thing.  My only question (as a former REMF) is how she finds the time to write them - but that's a question best left to the Supt Clk.

As I've said before; there are a lot of other blogs and articles with all the same crap as these... and as I've said before; there's a lot more going on in KAF besides one soldiers daily accounts of tedium...  I'd rather read about VTECHs, Medics in R 3 MMU, Weapons techs, or even those working in the NCE...  lots more stories to be had.

To sum up - it is my opinion that these "letters" are NOT a reflection of what troops outside the wire are experiencing - but they could be a useful tool in educating the Canadian public regarding what the support troops are doing - they need to pushed by the PAff folks onto the Lifestyles pages of major dailies.  I DON'T think that links to these "letters" on the DND site constitutes "exposure" in the same way that publication in the MSM print editions would.

Two issues with that; 1) it's not always about the Battle group... as I've said, there are a lot more elements out there: PRT, OMLT, CIMIC, etc.  2) These reports don't really reflect well on the Support trades in KAF... they don't tell much about their roll and work, and portray them incorrectly.  More complaints about living conditions and less information about what they're actually doing over there make for a misinformation to the public.
Just my thoughts on that.

 

[observor 69]

Ref Christie Blatchford she has been spending her time recently doing this.

http://tinyurl.com/226hjo

As far as I know she is still with the G&M.

The G&M had an article last weekend listing the numerous authors writing books for the Xmas market on Canada/NATO in Afghanistan.

 

[pbi]

I certainly have no problem with support folks telling their stories-as we all recognize, without their work there's no mission, whether it's vehicle recovery, stitching up the wounded or getting the troops from the FOBs off on well-deserved HLTA. Of course, these "inside the wire" stories have to be balanced with stories that remind everybody (CF and civ) why we are really there and who is doing the fighting and dying. In that case, it's just a question of editorial judgement.

Which brings me to my second point...

We had a ramp ceremony for the fallen RCD (Royal Canadian Dragoons) driver, which was a sad event...


I went to the market to buy some things and saw a guy with a neat straw like hat that folds up.

Putting these comments side by side, almost in the same paragraph, is ludicrous almost beyondf belief. It looks like:

"Some guy died-oh yeah, then we went shopping. Dumm-dee-dumm-dumm. What's for lunch?"

Want to create a bad impression? Keep it up with this kind of combination. Although I'm usually against editorial fiddling, it's badly needed here.

Cheers

 

[Franko]

I certainly have no problem with support folks telling their stories-as we all recognize, without their work there's no mission, whether it's vehicle recovery, stitching up the wounded or getting the troops from the FOBs off on well-deserved HLTA. Of course, these "inside the wire" stories have to be balanced with stories that remind everybody (CF and civ) why we are really there and who is doing the fighting and dying. In that case, it's just a question of editorial judgement.

Which brings me to my second point...

Putting these comments side by side, almost in the same paragraph, is ludicrous almost beyondf belief. It looks like:

"Some guy died-oh yeah, then we went shopping. Dumm-dee-dumm-dumm. What's for lunch?"

Want to create a bad impression? Keep it up with this kind of combination. Although I'm usually against editorial fiddling, it's badly needed here.

Cheers

Seeing as I actually knew the guy....that little line pissed me off big time, to the point that I actually had to walk away with my frau asking "What's wrong?"

Told her to read the article. Her reply was "WTF?"

Hence another reason why I can't stand that individual.

Regards