Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[GR66]

yeah I do. Our local clinic has 12 doctors: 7 are off-shore, 3 are old and 2 are mid-40's. As for the fluff courses, many of the sociology programmes go nowhere now. Archaeology is a come-on that eventually employs only a few of the graduates and they have to find a college to sponsor them. Better to reduce the numbers. In the college arena, a few years back there were more students in the reporter/film programmes than there were total jobs in Canada. I wouldn't put criminology into a fluff category but I would place many of the liberal arts there.

While you are perhaps correct that too many high school graduates are entering degree programs that some may consider "fluff" courses compared to STEM degrees (I'd be interested in knowing the actual numbers on that), it's important to understand that many of these liberal arts fields contribute to the general productive potential of a country.

Take countries like China for example that put a major focus on producing STEM graduates but where creativity and outside the box thinking are not necessarily their strong suit. Your archaeologist might be the driving force behind developing new imaging technology for example.

Not saying that the system can't be improved of course but I think we need to be careful not to let the pendulum swing too far the other way. Maybe more schools specializing in STEM subjects by offering greater subsidization to students enrolling in those courses but still offering the liberal arts programs with less subsidization which will hopefully help target enrollment in those programs to students that are passionate about those fields.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The point of our university system, like the US state university system, is to serve a "public need" : to educate Canadians, in particular (thus limited) ways. A first principle is that foreign students can't be displacing Canadians. A second principle is that foreign students maintain passing grades with a full course load - vaguely, a minimum of 15 hours in classrooms/labs per week, ordinarily requiring at least an additional 30 hours of outside reading, writing, and problem solving (homework) - and never a minimum course load. A third principle is that there be no fluff programs, for anyone.

Ratios of administration : faculty : student are needed to identify whether one point of improvement - stripping out administrative bloat - is a preferred solution over releasing faculty and reducing offerings.

Ratios of enrollments in traditional "hard" programs versus, in particular, the stuff deprecatingly referred to as victimology or grievance studies, are needed to identify which to cut. Universities shouldn't necessarily follow demand for other-than-occupational specialties (law, medicine, nursing, pharmacology, etc) : even if the take-up for difficult programs (eg. STEM, history, philosophy) is low, that is where the offerings should be made and maintained. Canadian society doesn't need 25% or 30% of people to hold a degree; it needs some lesser percentage to master difficult subjects and the general art of critical thinking.

The customer base for "7th year of a 4 year program" and dogma/activism programs and other lightweight pursuits should be left to commercial colleges.

 

[Lumber]

Respectfully, that’s anecdote from a single site. I meant data across the board. It would also need to be assessed whether there’s any deficit in quality. If foreign students come to Canada, go to med school here, and then practice medicine here and do it well, I don’t see a policy problem.



Right but the metric wasn’t direct employment in the specific field, but rather ‘future earnings prospects’. Outside of specific professional programs, lots of people end up with employment that’s not aligned with what is written on their degree (and I recognize the irony in my case- within policing we actually discourage potential applicants from pursuing criminal justice degrees. Mine managed to work out anyway). A university education, writ large, is definitely tied to higher income and socioeconomic status, but I think that aggregates too much, because I acknowledge it’ll capture professional programs. I wonder if there’s anything out there that assesses it based on type of degree program? Look at longitudinal income growth categorized by types of bachelor degree? I personally still think you’ll see income improvement, because ‘a degree’ generally is still a box to be ticked for a lot of things, particularly in the public sector.

Anyway- we’ve sidetracked (an interesting one). I’m not arguing we should have such wide open foreign student visas. I’m in favour generally of fewer and with more limits on employment. I’m just pointing out that it does come with costs too, and I happen to be in a position to directly see and experience that.

This is from 2020 but it answers a lot of your questions.

The payoffs of higher education

More education typically leads to higher pay, but as more people become educated, wages can decrease. Your education choices significantly affect your future earning potential.

www.bankofcanada.ca

Here's another one. You can pick up to 4 degrees or degree categries:

Career earnings by college major - The Hamilton Project

See the accompanying economic analysis, “Major Decisions: What Graduates Earn Over Their Lifetimes.” Over the entire working life, the typical college graduate will earn $1.19 million in today’s dollars. This is more than twice as much as the lifetime earnings of a typical high school graduate...

www.hamiltonproject.org

 

[brihard]

This is from 2020 but it answers a lot of your questions.

The payoffs of higher education

More education typically leads to higher pay, but as more people become educated, wages can decrease. Your education choices significantly affect your future earning potential.

www.bankofcanada.ca

Here's another one. You can pick up to 4 degrees or degree categries:

Career earnings by college major - The Hamilton Project

See the accompanying economic analysis, “Major Decisions: What Graduates Earn Over Their Lifetimes.” Over the entire working life, the typical college graduate will earn $1.19 million in today’s dollars. This is more than twice as much as the lifetime earnings of a typical high school graduate...

www.hamiltonproject.org

View attachment 95649

Excellent links, thanks for that.

 

[IKnowNothing]

As an employer, a non-professional / non-topical post secondary accreditation carries/carried value in that it signals (and played a roll in developing):

• -basic technical aptitude (you must be able to use basic software, email, learn to sight navigate different portals, and platforms)
• -independent data finding, research, and problem solving - not just for sourcing papers (though that's huge) but finding and figuring out above mentioned platforms, administrative processes, sourcing shelter, finding co-op jobs / internships
• -stronger than average literacy, both inbound and outbound

1. The strength of that signal has gone down in recent years- it seems like it has gotten easier to float through.
2. A lot of students who are primarily gaining the above would be better served with a 2 year college diploma than a 4 year bachelors degree

There's a phrase about university that takes on a whole different meaning depending on how you view post secondary institutions.

 

[Lumber]

There's a phrase about university that takes on a whole different meaning depending on how you view post secondary institutions.

And what's the phrase?

 

[YZT580]

Respectfully, that’s anecdote from a single site. I meant data across the board. It would also need to be assessed whether there’s any deficit in quality. If foreign students come to Canada, go to med school here, and then practice medicine here and do it well, I don’t see a policy problem.

It is interesting. But if foreign students taking part-time work away from Canadian residents is bad I would say that an offshore individual taking both the part time work and then later the full time career is much, much worse. My personal observation is that the quality is down somewhat but I wouldn't attribute that to nationality as much as I would put the responsibility on the training system. As for being a single case, walk into any hospital and look around or, take a look at the professional directory and try to pronounce the names (not a perfect example because many could be second and third generation). Lest I be accused of cherry picking, here is a link to a list of doctors in Burlington. Burlington Doctor Directory. Find a Family Doctor or Specialist in Burlington, Ontario.. I would guess that at least 50% of this list are of eastern descent. I spent several weeks in hospital a few months back and I can attest to the number from the east that were employed there.

 

[IKnowNothing]

And what's the phrase?

Ha. I deleted that part of the post and missed that introduction.

University teaches students how to think
University teaches students how to think

 

[daftandbarmy]

Meanwhile, BC Premier's inaccurate claims and general overall xenophobia gets called out...

B.C. premier faces backlash — including from New Democrats — to immigration comments​

'Saying that a certain community is taking more resources than another, it's just not right': Katrina Chen​

B.C. Premier David Eby is standing firm, following his comments about Canada's immigration system and the temporary foreign worker program.

"This is part of a larger conversation we need to have about our immigration system. We need to have an immigration system that lifts people up, supports people when they get here, protects them from exploitation and ensures that programs like the temporary foreign worker program aren't used to drive down wages," Eby told CBC News Tuesday afternoon.

It follows growing backlash over his comments blaming Canada's immigration system for filling up food banks and homeless shelters — including criticism from within his own party.

Last week, during a press conference about school funding, Eby went off script and urged the federal government to cancel or reform the temporary foreign worker program, which has been beset by fraud.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/david-eby-immigration-comments-backlash-1.7629402?cmp=newsletter_CBC%20British%20Columbia_1633_2018902

 

[Remius]

Diversification of our economy into Asian and European markets.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-caucus-address-fall-priorities-1.7630250

And major projects announcements coming tomorrow.

Carney confirms major project announcements coming Thursday

Prime Minister Mark Carney confirmed Wednesday that the first wave of major-project announcements will be made Thursday.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Jarnhamar]

How many platoon warrants, even if they have their crap tightly wired together, can get ALL the platoon's work done if they're down, say, 2/3 or 3/4 of their standard?

Not to get too far off topic -I get what you're saying.

If you're a checked out platoon warrant in that situation I'd make the following assumptions:

1. Your platoon commander is probably too afraid of looking bad to push back against the platoons workload. PAR season is coming up.

2. You're carrying at least one sergeant who is dead weight and doesn't do their job, except you cant fire them because no one has kept a record of their short comings, and no one wants to deal with firing someone. They're one foot in the PT and appointments only door and you know if you push them they'll go on sick leave and you'll loose what little work they do.

3. You're taking on some of the work of the other platoon warrant for the same above reasons.

My personal jaded view is for these people to just quit and get out of my way so I can do 3 jobs at once in peace.

No matter how good the individuals are, if there's fewer of them, something's gotta give ....

That's fair. IMO getting rid of dead weight still has some benefits. The extra work load is off set by not babysitting someone on top of doing their work.

You pointed to a DOGE-like body needed here - remember when they recommended cuts to foreign aid that ended up almost letting ISIS prisoners held by Kurds to be released because they ran out of money from the cuts? Be careful what you wish for ...

ISIS raped and murdered Kurds with abandon. If Kurds want to release ISIS back into their population that's on them. We shouldn't be blackmailed into paying for security to guard prisoners in someone else's country.

That one was for SURE one for the ages, but yes & no -- the bits in yellow, to me, count as systems inside government. Did they work quickly enough? Given the size of the fuckery, probably not quickly enough.

We've become so accustomed to government misspending that a project going 750% over budget is normal. The only reason the system here worked (ArriveCan example) is because someone like me or you said pfft I can do better. We got lucky.

It's easy to say $200 million is going towards soft power developing a country rich in vibranium which will net positive results for Canada. When in practice that $200 million is going to a company to make 10,000 LGBTQ colouring books for a 4000 year old mud village that's a problem. Especially after the events of Oct 7 in Israel I'm not super inclined to trust UN organizations and NGOs when they promise the money is well spent.

 

[The Bread Guy]

.... My personal jaded view is for these people to just quit and get out of my way so I can do 3 jobs at once in peace.

You have the situation pretty precisely described, and there's likely similar situations across the PS. It would be less PITA for you to do your 3-5 jobs in peace, for sure, with less dead weight and drag inducers. There's still likely to be other stuff not getting done, though. Some have said "if it ain't getting done, will it be missed?" Ask people waiting longer for passports or on hold during tax season. If you don't cut right, sometimes you may be surprised what falls off the table.

ISIS raped and murdered Kurds with abandon. If Kurds want to release ISIS back into their population that's on them. We shouldn't be blackmailed into paying for security to guard prisoners in someone else's country.

The Kurds don't have a country, so they're not really collecting taxes. And if they're not guarding them, some of those Canadians'll have an easier time coming back here - which I think most people would be OK spending a bit of cash to prevent. So like above, knock-on effects can be surprising when governments do broad-stroke changes.

We've become so accustomed to government misspending that a project going 750% over budget is normal. The only reason the system here worked (ArriveCan example) is because someone like me or you said pfft I can do better. We got lucky.

Fair enough, we did.

 

[lenaitch]

yeah I do. Our local clinic has 12 doctors: 7 are off-shore, 3 are old and 2 are mid-40's. As for the fluff courses, many of the sociology programmes go nowhere now. Archaeology is a come-on that eventually employs only a few of the graduates and they have to find a college to sponsor them. Better to reduce the numbers. In the college arena, a few years back there were more students in the reporter/film programmes than there were total jobs in Canada. I wouldn't put criminology into a fluff category but I would place many of the liberal arts there.

At the community college level, not University, the 'fire technology' (or whatever they call it) courses in Ontario pumps out way more graduates that the professional fire services could ever hope to accommodate.

In the early days of community colleges in Ontario, the 1960s and '70s, there was a close connection between the various courses and the industries they served. That has been largely lost as the colleges moved into diploma/degree farms. When I went to CC just after the glaciers left, all of our faculty were ex-coppers. The program knew what the industry needed (there was very little private market back then). Jump ahead a couple of decades, my wife became a CC prof after leaving the police service. X years of experience + her CC program and she had a job teaching students. Now, most 'police foundations/law enforcement' programs allow and extension into a degree program, so all faculty has to have Masters degree (at her former college). I don't think there is a single ex-copper on staff, they are all professional academics, some with Doctorates. Advanced degrees and higher learning absolutely have their place, but not at the CC level. They've outgrown their scope as far as I'm concerned. If we could only get industry to do their own training again.

 

[dapaterson]

If we could only get industry to do their own training again.

There needs to be a balance; I would not trust Ottawa Police to train their own without adult supervision.

 

[lenaitch]

There needs to be a balance; I would not trust Ottawa Police to train their own without adult supervision.

Ha. Fair enough, but in this case, the 'industry' would be the level of government responsible for the administration of justice; i.e. the Sol-Gen and the Ontario Police College.

 

[ArmyRick]

CPC Justice critic Larry Brock (former crown prosecutor) does an excellent interview on Northern Perspective. Give it a watch

 

[MilEME09]

First batch of projects to be announced tomorrow, second wave before the grey cup according to the PM

https://twitter.com/x/status/1965878454391591185