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Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

"I'm responding to you, but this is an open question for anyone who doesn't like the media subsides. What would you do instead?"

after which

"If your task is to ensure Canadian media can survive without subsidies, what do you do instead?"

is moving the goalposts.
I had to clarify because if I create a task saying how to best do this operation and the response is lets just fail, I don't think the original task was clear enough.

Regardless of the moving of the goalposts, you can just admit that out of the list of bad options, subsidies are the less bad of all the bad options if the task was to ensure the survival of Canadian news media.

Then we can all move on
 
It's not the best option. It selects winners who are incentivized to become hecklers for the government. The government can control the information flow. This is not good.

Let the market determine the winners and losers. No Gov subsidies, period.
 
Regardless of the moving of the goalposts, you can just admit that out of the list of bad options, subsidies are the less bad of all the bad options if the task was to ensure the survival of Canadian news media.
But of course that's unproven, and difficult to assert unless you again move the goalposts to "all Canadian news media of such-and-such a size and such-and-such a reputation extant at such-and-such a date". A brutal round of creative destruction usually leaves some participants standing.
 
It's not the best option. It selects winners who are incentivized to become hecklers for the government. The government can control the information flow. This is not good.

Let the market determine the winners and losers. No Gov subsidies, period.
I really wonder what happens when the journalists, the good ones who do all the investigative reporting, finding sources, leaks, the like, all move on once news media dies.

A democracy without a functioning news media isn't a healthy one. Suddenly, no scandals for the government. And the scandals that do pop up are dubious. It's hard for the government to tell an established journalist with the backing of their network that their scoop is BS. Some person on Twitter? Very easy.

But sure, let it die. I wonder how countries without reliable news do...I'll check on Russia and China, be right back.
 
But of course that's unproven, and difficult to assert unless you again move the goalposts to "all Canadian news media of such-and-such a size and such-and-such a reputation extant at such-and-such a date". A brutal round of creative destruction usually leaves some participants standing.
Or you have come to the realization that there is no better solution that ensures the Canadian news media continues to exist and are stubbornly refusing to admit that.

However, if there was you likely would have stated it already, so I'll take the lack of any such suggestion as confirmation of that fact.

Thank you for your cooperation in this little experiment.
 
I really wonder what happens when the journalists, the good ones who do all the investigative reporting, finding sources, leaks, the like, all move on once news media dies.

A democracy without a functioning news media isn't a healthy one. Suddenly, no scandals for the government. And the scandals that do pop up are dubious. It's hard for the government to tell an established journalist with the backing of their network that their scoop is BS. Some person on Twitter? Very easy.

But sure, let it die. I wonder how countries without reliable news do...I'll check on Russia and China, be right back.

Do you think if subsidies stopped today all Canadian media would cease tomorrow? Or do you think there might be corrections and adjustments along the way and some Canadian media survives - it just isn't living off the government?

I think the latter.
 
A democracy without a functioning news media isn't a healthy one. Suddenly, no scandals for the government. And the scandals that do pop up are dubious. It's hard for the government to tell an established journalist with the backing of their network that their scoop is BS. Some person on Twitter? Very easy.
How often did people bitch about Poilievre bringing up scandal after scandal in Parliament?

Liberal voters didn't seem to care very much since it was their guy in power.

Would you say you've came across as very incensed over Liberal scandals in your time on the forum?
 
Do you think if subsidies stopped today all Canadian media would cease tomorrow? Or do you think there might be corrections and adjustments along the way and some Canadian media survives - it just isn't living off the government?

I think the latter.
No. Adjustments to the new reality would likely happen and I suspect less offerings. I would see a complete loss of local news. We would have maybe one news outlet conglomerate monopolizing the market.
 
How often did people bitch about Poilievre bringing up scandal after scandal in Parliament?
Everything was a scandal. Everything was a call for resignation. It became white noise.
Liberal voters didn't seem to care very much since it was their guy in power.
Possibly. But the majority of voters didn’t care much about what the political class derided as scandals.
Would you say you've came across as very incensed over Liberal scandals in your time on the forum?
The fake outrage here by some over some of them was certainly entertaining
 
Do you think if subsidies stopped today all Canadian media would cease tomorrow? Or do you think there might be corrections and adjustments along the way and some Canadian media survives - it just isn't living off the government?

I think the latter.
Newsrooms were closing down across the country. Papers going out of business. Journalists sacked. And it's not even like the subsidies have stopped this all together, it's still happening, just more slowly.

Would it die overnight? No. Would it be dead within a decade? Yes. The Canadian government even tried to get big tech to pay for sharing canadian news on their platforms, big tech just banned Canadian news on their platforms.

But ya, let it die. A world where everyone gets their news off of Twitter journalists is clearly the superior one, yes?
 
Everything was a scandal. Everything was a call for resignation. It became white noise.
Constant calls for resignation was obnoxious. Constant scandals were obnoxious too.

Possibly. But the majority of voters didn’t care much about what the political class derided as scandals.
Right. So the "but what about reporting scandals" doesn't hold much water.

The fake outrage here by some over some of them was certainly entertaining
Which do you think was the most entertaining?
 
Again, the task was a simple one.

If this was the military, and I have given you, or anyone else a task, and you come back saying I reject the premise of the task, I wouldn't be impressed.

I am also not impressed now. The question isn't if the subsidies are good or bad. The question is what is the alternative to accomplishing the task of ensuring the Canadian media landscape can survive.

You don't have an answer. So your lack of an answer is only showing me that the subsidies is the best way to accomplish that specific task.
Actually everyone that has replied has given you the way to save it. Let it burn. People quit subscribing to traditional papers because they have become devoid of anything worth reading. For the same reason they stopped watching traditional TV. Instead of well-scripted plots and entertaining variety shows we have been reduced to watching reality shows that are anything but reality. Blue Bloods survived 20 years because it was worth tuning in to every week. But there are very few shows of that caliber left. If the press wants to survive it needs to revert to being worth subscribing to. I would bet that most people on this site subscribe to one or more likely a half a dozen web sources for news that more than equals the cost of a paper and would possibly revert to receiving printed news if it wasn't 50% advertising and contained news that was worth receiving at your door. A paper is much easier to read than this thing and can be recycled for the dog or to start a bonfire when you are done. It also works well to absorb paint spills too. So let the current set up burn and trust that someone will catch on and start printing news once again. Didn't you say it yourself. Trust the market and get the government out of it.
 
How often did people bitch about Poilievre bringing up scandal after scandal in Parliament?
Was everything a scandal? Trudeau went on a vacation, oh my goodness, he took a government plane and needed security. Please, ethics commissioner, please check into this.

Rinse and repeat every few months.
Liberal voters didn't seem to care very much since it was their guy in power.
Seeing as Trudeau only won one majority government in 3 attempts, I like to think people cared.
Would you say you've came across as very incensed over Liberal scandals in your time on the forum?
In fairness, was I that incensed over PP and his scandals?
 
Actually everyone that has replied has given you the way to save it. Let it burn. People quit subscribing to traditional papers because they have become devoid of anything worth reading. For the same reason they stopped watching traditional TV. Instead of well-scripted plots and entertaining variety shows we have been reduced to watching reality shows that are anything but reality. Blue Bloods survived 20 years because it was worth tuning in to every week. But there are very few shows of that caliber left. If the press wants to survive it needs to revert to being worth subscribing to. I would bet that most people on this site subscribe to one or more likely a half a dozen web sources for news that more than equals the cost of a paper and would possibly revert to receiving printed news if it wasn't 50% advertising and contained news that was worth receiving at your door. A paper is much easier to read than this thing and can be recycled for the dog or to start a bonfire when you are done. It also works well to absorb paint spills too. So let the current set up burn and trust that someone will catch on and start printing news once again. Didn't you say it yourself. Trust the market and get the government out of it.
Since you as well have not come up with a viable alternative that ensures Canadian media exists, I will take that to mean that there are none and I thank you for participating in this little experiment.
 
Since you as well have not come up with a viable alternative that ensures Canadian media exists, I will take that to mean that there are none and I thank you for participating in this little experiment.
Ah but I have ensured that it will exist. Just not in its current format which isn't worth saving. There is money to be made in news. As a side, I think you would agree that Amazon is successful and has put the big box stores out of business pretty well all by itself. Yet all it is is the Simpsons catalogue and home delivery service updated through the addition of computer controlled inventory. Simpsons, Sears, and Eaton's all had the idea a century ago but instead of modernizing and making it more convenient for the shopper they started nickel and diming delivery until it reached the point where it was no longer beneficial doing business with them. Amazon is starting to go the same way with their central pickup concept and they will lose if they pursue it. The news can do the same thing. Go back to where they were doing it right and modernize from there but to be successful they have to offer a product that people want to read and become the agency that people used to trust. And that will happen as soon as they get off the government teat and fend for themselves.
 
Ah but I have ensured that it will exist. Just not in its current format which isn't worth saving. There is money to be made in news. As a side, I think you would agree that Amazon is successful and has put the big box stores out of business pretty well all by itself. Yet all it is is the Simpsons catalogue and home delivery service updated through the addition of computer controlled inventory. Simpsons, Sears, and Eaton's all had the idea a century ago but instead of modernizing and making it more convenient for the shopper they started nickel and diming delivery until it reached the point where it was no longer beneficial doing business with them. Amazon is starting to go the same way with their central pickup concept and they will lose if they pursue it. The news can do the same thing. Go back to where they were doing it right and modernize from there but to be successful they have to offer a product that people want to read and become the agency that people used to trust. And that will happen as soon as they get off the government teat and fend for themselves.
Since you as well have not come up with a viable alternative that ensures Canadian media exists, I will take that to mean that there are none and I thank you for participating in this little experiment.
 
Bitcoin, firing bank of Canada governor,refusing to get his security clearance.

Actually, I take that last one back, I got heated about that one.
I didn't think you were posting on the forum when his security clearence stuff hit the news.

As for the bitcoin stuff, I'm not sure that qualifies as a scandal?

I know I would be $10.8 billion dollars richer if I invested $100 into bitcoin in 2009.

Comments about the bank of Canada governor weren't exactly a scandal either.
 
Or you have come to the realization that there is no better solution that ensures the Canadian news media continues to exist and are stubbornly refusing to admit that.
The old news delivery models are mostly obsolete, and have been for a couple of decades. You may want to preserve the antiquated forms and practices; I don't. Just as traditional Canadian O&G-focused energy companies will eventually have to adapt to new "energy business" practices, so does the media have to adapt to new "news business" practices right now. Subsidization is a stop-gap desperate effort to protect companies unable or unwilling to shed obsolete practices and try new ones. Those who can successfully adopt profitable new business models deserve to survive; the rest are collections of resources to be dismembered and reapportioned to productive profitable enterprises of any kind.
However, if there was you likely would have stated it already, so I'll take the lack of any such suggestion as confirmation of that fact.
I stated "creative destruction". It has the advantage of producing stronger entities. Whether enough of the news organizations you think particularly deserve to survive do in fact survive is not a criterion worth serious consideration.
Thank you for your cooperation in this little experiment.
For a guy who spent time complaining about tone on this site and then quit for a while in whatever kind of huff it was, you're sure capable of collapsing yourself into a bundle of insubstantial unctuous condescension on your way out of a debate you can't satisfactorily set limits upon.
 
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