Liberals' answer to terrorists: Talk them through their feelings

[Eye In The Sky]

Article Link

Liberals' answer to terrorists: Talk them through their feelings

OTTAWA -- The Liberal government has unveiled its first desired weapon to combat homegrown terrorists, and it's a therapy couch.

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale, facing scrutiny one week after jihadi sympathizer Aaron Driver was killed by police in Strathroy, Ont., on his way to attack a transit hub, said he wants counter-radicalization counselling mandatory for people under anti-terrorism peace bonds.

Driver, 24, was under a court-ordered peace bond intended to limit his activities but he was able to obtain explosives, plan an attack and film a martyrdom video.

Police got wind of his plans through a tip from the FBI and intercepted him as he was leaving his southwestern Ontario home in a taxi.

There were some ad hoc interventions aimed at helping deradicalize Driver but nothing deliberate and well-organized, Goodale said Wednesday after a speech to the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police.

The Liberals plan to open a federal office of counter-radicalization to serve as a national focal point for counselling and intervention services. 

"We are in the process of recruiting the person that will lead the effort. And we are determined to get this office up and running toward the end of the summer, the beginning of the fall," Goodale said.

"We need to understand what positive messages can counteract the insidious poison that draws people in, especially young people." 

The government is also back to "examining" and "considering" other changes to monitor terrorists in our midst, but it doesn't appear to be in any hurry.  op:

Considering Driver was on an anti-terrorist peace bond -- as are another dozen or so people across the country -- but was not under constant surveillance, the government said it wants to find a way to make peace bonds more effective -- perhaps involving community outreach organizations.

"(Driver's peace bond) is obviously a lesson that one needs to look at very carefully," Goodale said. "And we are examining very carefully what we need to do to make our police and security activity more effective."

Goodale said the government would move as rapidly as possible, but he stressed that good laws are not developed "in a panic."

A federal consultation on national security, to conclude by the end of the year, must happen first, he said.

"I've obviously got to do this in a coherent and sensible way, not scribbled down on the back of an envelope."

 

[PuckChaser]

The Liberals plan to open a federal office of counter-radicalization to serve as a national focal point for counselling and intervention services.

Can probably get a good 20-30 new PSAC workers in there to boost votes for next election. Couple million dollar budget too.

"We are in the process of recruiting the person that will lead the effort. And we are determined to get this office up and running toward the end of the summer, the beginning of the fall," Goodale said.

Is Dr. Phil available?

"I've obviously got to do this in a coherent and sensible way, not scribbled down on the back of an envelope."

You mean like most of the Liberal campaign promises? Guesstimates and quick direction changes after taking over because nothing they said jived with reality?

What a joke.

 

[jmt18325]

It's much better to be proactive than constantly having to be reactive.  We have to stop lone wolf converts from ever getting to that point.

 

[a_majoor]

Another one size fits all federal bureaucracy.

If it as nimble and responsive as PWGSC, the former CIDA or VAC, we can simply kill off the radicals through boredom and old age as they wait for their cases to be processed.....

While I certainly cannot do more than a bit of hand waving here, the solution is not a centralized bureaucracy but rather to create something which resembles antibodies that move through the "body politic". How to actually do this is beyond me. I'll be open to suggestions though.

 

[PuckChaser]

It's much better to be proactive than constantly having to be reactive.  We have to stop lone wolf converts from ever getting to that point.

The counseling is for individuals under peace bond, that's reactive; they're already radicalized. They could have conceivably already conducted a terror attack before the peace bond process even started.

 

[Lightguns]

Article Link

Liberals' answer to terrorists: Talk them through their feelings

OTTAWA -- The Liberal government has unveiled its first desired weapon to combat homegrown terrorists, and it's a therapy couch.

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale, facing scrutiny one week after jihadi sympathizer Aaron Driver was killed by police in Strathroy, Ont., on his way to attack a transit hub, said he wants counter-radicalization counselling mandatory for people under anti-terrorism peace bonds.

Driver, 24, was under a court-ordered peace bond intended to limit his activities but he was able to obtain explosives, plan an attack and film a martyrdom video.

Police got wind of his plans through a tip from the FBI and intercepted him as he was leaving his southwestern Ontario home in a taxi.

There were some ad hoc interventions aimed at helping deradicalize Driver but nothing deliberate and well-organized, Goodale said Wednesday after a speech to the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police.

The Liberals plan to open a federal office of counter-radicalization to serve as a national focal point for counselling and intervention services. 

"We are in the process of recruiting the person that will lead the effort. And we are determined to get this office up and running toward the end of the summer, the beginning of the fall," Goodale said.

"We need to understand what positive messages can counteract the insidious poison that draws people in, especially young people." 

The government is also back to "examining" and "considering" other changes to monitor terrorists in our midst, but it doesn't appear to be in any hurry.  op:

Considering Driver was on an anti-terrorist peace bond -- as are another dozen or so people across the country -- but was not under constant surveillance, the government said it wants to find a way to make peace bonds more effective -- perhaps involving community outreach organizations.

"(Driver's peace bond) is obviously a lesson that one needs to look at very carefully," Goodale said. "And we are examining very carefully what we need to do to make our police and security activity more effective."

Goodale said the government would move as rapidly as possible, but he stressed that good laws are not developed "in a panic."

A federal consultation on national security, to conclude by the end of the year, must happen first, he said.

"I've obviously got to do this in a coherent and sensible way, not scribbled down on the back of an envelope."

The head of one useless body telling another useless body about his plans to create another useless body.  I bet more gun owners and Alberta separatists are legally forced to get counseling than Jihadists.  Mission creep on this one is gonna be huge, like a the former HR tribunals on steroids.  But I am jaded......

I guess I better define this better.  I think eco warriors and Jihadists are radicals but I do not think that separatists (Western or Quebec) are necessarily radical.  Both have in the past threaten violence.  MSM thinks that property rights owners (firearm or land) are radicals and often used constitutional property rights as a conservative boogeyman that was going to bring economic activity to an end in Canada claiming that they are violent.

So who is a radical, does threatening violence make you radical?, there a guy in NS who has blocked his neighbour's right of access to their properties and runs heavy equipment day and night forcing them off the road, radical?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

It's much better to be proactive than constantly having to be reactive.  We have to stop lone wolf converts from ever getting to that point.

And you think this is the very best COA...or does this COA have more of an ''appearance"of doing something...which I consider to be the LPC main concern...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Stuff like this is part of the puzzle, but it can't be the end all of your efforts. The problem will be how to measure it's effectiveness in a political correct system where they may not be allowed to do what they need to do. Also how do they get the information to connect, who will they connect with at what level. will they be passing intel along, etc,etc 

 

[Remius]

I'm not sure what the best COA is as this is really uncharted waters.  We have a problem with radicalised lone wolf terrorist/sickos.  I'm of the belief that comprehensive approach is necessary.  I have little faith that bloated government office will achieve anything but we'll see.

I realise that some people would rather take more extreme measures.  But that clearly does not seem to work.

This is just one piece of the overall solution. 

 

[Lumber]

And you think this is the very best COA...or does this COA have more of an ''appearance"of doing something...which I consider to be the LPC main concern...

While I don't share the disdain for the LPC that you do, I agree that this COA will look like a lot but achieve very little.

How much money for how much return? If you look at the amount of money the US spend on anti-terrorism activities at home, including the entire Dept of Homeland Security, the FBI, the NSA, etc., and then compare the number of people killed by Terrorism is the US against the number of people who die from alcohol related incidents, smoking-induced diseases, etc. do they have their priorities straight?

Is it even possible to not do things this way? No on is afraid  of heart disease, even though it's the 2nd highest cause of death in Canada, and can be greatly affected by changing your diet and lifestyle; no, it's the big boogie man of home-grown terrorism which kills... how many?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I am okay with a de-radicalization programme being another tool in the tool box against terrorists.

I too am sceptical that this particular office will actually achieve anything of consequence, beyond providing a sinecure for well connected Liberals. But I am particularly cynical...

 

[Journeyman]

I am okay with a de-radicalization programme being another tool in the tool box against terrorists.

        :nod: 

Community engagement is key;  the main problem wherever this has been attempted is the perceived (justified or not) cross-purposes of developing trust for de-radicalization and collecting information to support intelligence/law enforcement.

 

[Jarnhamar]

We have a problem with radicalised lone wolf terrorist/sickos. 

We could look at the inspiration for the radicalization.

 

[Kirkhill]

...
A federal consultation on national security, to conclude by the end of the year, must happen first, he said.

....

Another consultation - On the good news front, as someone with libertarian instincts, if the government is consulting then it isn't making things worse. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Put this guy on a non-stop loop and tie them into a chair in front of the TV. Bob will make them calm down, get in touch with their feelings and give them something else to do.

 

[PuckChaser]

We could look at the inspiration for the radicalization.

Allowing people who rape children and burn people in cages to take and hold territory is probably good inspiration. No one wants to follow a loser who constantly gets his *** kicked. That's why the Ottawa Senators can't ever sell out a game.

Edit: fixed phone autocorrect

 

[ballz]

I can't help but think that this lone-wolf radicalization thing is just something that people pre-disposed to becoming a lone-wolf random mass killer latch onto. Does it influence their behaviour and make the more likely to commit to this kind of act? Maybe, who knows, there is very little known.

My understanding of a peace bond is that it is only offered to those who the prosecution does not have a strong enough case against, so they offer a peace bond instead of going to trial. You agree, keep the peace for 12 months, and you get to avoid going to trial and possibly being convicted of a crime. To me, since entering into a peace bond is voluntary, you should be able to make the arrangements under that peace bond as stringent as you want. After all, the bondee can choose not to take the peace bond and go to trial instead. If that's the case, then a condition of a peace bond being to attend counselling is not a terrible idea.

Of course, I have absolutely zero faith in the government, of any party, being able to effectively de-radicalize someone they've identified, no matter what conditions / programs they use. **We have a generation of largely disenfranchised youth. Looking at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, most people in our relatively bountiful society have their physiological and physical safety needs met. Their need for "love/belonging" seems to be where they are stuck, or perhaps its the "esteem (self-esteem and self-respect)" as many do have families/groups they belong to. I think these needs drive people more psychologically crazy than physiological and safety needs, which are more physical by their nature.** How in the sweet name of anything you can address that, I don't know.

**Purely based on my non-professional, relatively uneducated feelings on the topic. But the understanding of this problem is so little, I think even those that are immersed in this in their professional lives have relatively little more than their own feelings on the topic.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Allowing people who rape children and burn people in cages to take and hold territory is probably good inspiration. No one wants to follow a loser who constantly gets his *** kicked. That's why the Ottawa Senators can't ever sell out a game.

That said, Al Qaeda wasn't holding a lot of ground anywhere when 9-11 happened, so while beating them on their home turf is one element, even if they hold no ground, I'm guessing ISIS'll still be able to keep inspiring 

 

[Kirkhill]

That said, Al Qaeda wasn't holding a lot of ground anywhere when 9-11 happened, so while beating them on their home turf is one element, even if they hold no ground, I'm guessing ISIS'll still be able to keep inspiring 

How much turf do the Hell's Angels hold?  And despite 60 years of effort to eradicate them they still exist and still keep recruiting.  Not to mention the success of mobs like Cosa Nostra et al.

 

[The Bread Guy]

How much turf do the Hell's Angels hold?  And despite 60 years of effort to eradicate them they still exist and still keep recruiting.  Not to mention the success of mobs like Cosa Nostra et al.

Good parallels, indeed.