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Little bit of Naval Aweseome (HMCS OTTAWA ships moral badge)

dimsum said:
But - remember to use the names that the Nation itself wants, not what others have called them.

Example: Iroquois, which some suggest that it was what its enemies called them, rather than "Haudenosaunee" (the name they called themselves).


AFAIK only 1 Wing is allowed to wear them. I've seen the jackets on others, but almost always on folks who were Tac Hel and then went to other fleets.
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Some of us developed a plan along with these sailors (and another) to put forward to the CSC naming committee regarding how to approach resurecting the Tribals. There is certainly an ear for it.

The Plan:
Basically you take the old Tribal class names. You rename them using the accepted language/spelling from the group they were supposed to represent. So like you said, Haudenosaunee instead of Iroquois.

The ship also gets a new crest designed by a Haudenosaunee artist in a traditional style combined with the current naval crest symbolism.

Finally you keep the battle honours of the previous Iroquois, to bring those into the future. Basically the ship is the same, we're just using a new name for it. It also wouldn't be the first time a ship crest was redisigned/updated. The ships motto could be updated as well if necessary. In Iroqouis case Relentless in chase could stay the same or undergo a language modification.

Why It Works:
Ship names generally meet a few criteria:
  1. Connects with Canadians/Canadian communities
  2. Brings forward Canadian Naval Heritage/History
  3. Be recognizable as Canadian
  4. No disrespectful or death symbolism (so no the Erebus and Terror are likely not available due to that)
The proposed plan meets all of the above criteria. (1) is met by the FN communities the ship will be named after, (2) it keeps the battle honours and history of the original Tribal classes, (3) kinda obvious but again Canadian FN communites, (4) goes that extra mile for reconciliation with respect and honour.

There is an unofficial (5) which is it's got a positive political message. And this would get all party support no mater who was in Gov't.

The previous Tribal Class names (1936):
  • Iroqouis
  • Athabaskan
  • Algonquin
  • Huron
  • Haida (bring it back to active duty, no need to rename the old ship)
  • Micmac
  • Nootka
  • Cayooga

Some other ship names from RCN history that could be used and carry on battle honours (originally River class or subs but if the name fits):
  • Kootany - I mentioned this name to a CPO2 and he got all teary eyed at the idea that Kootany could be brough back
  • Ojibwa
  • Okanogan (Syilx)
  • Onadoga
  • Sioux (Nakota/Dakota)
  • Assiniboine

Some major first nations groups that should have ships named after them:
  • Cree (largest of the "nations" in Canada)
  • Inuit
  • Metis
 
Underway said:
Some major first nations groups that should have ships named after them:
  • Cree (largest of the "nations" in Canada)
  • Inuit
  • Metis
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And so we enter the dance of who is a First Nation, and who is not....

Don't worry, whatever you do someone will wind up officially, and very publicly, offended in some way ;)


Terminology Guide​


"The term ‘First Nations’ can be applied to individuals, but, technically refers only to those who have Indian status under Canadian law as part of a recognized community. Many Aboriginal people in Canada do not have this formal connection, and those who are Métis or Inuit should never be referred to as ‘First Nations.’ Sometimes, the term ‘Nation’ is more generally applied to a whole cultural group, e.g., “the Mohawk Nation.”

Indigenous Terminology Guide | Queen's University

Defining terms to use (Indigenous, First nations, Métis, Inuit) and terms to avoid (Native, our Native People / Native Canadian / Indigenous Canadian, Aboriginal, Indian).
www.queensu.ca www.queensu.ca
 
I think we missed out by not naming two of the Arctic Offshore Patrol Ships Erebus and Terror.

... which also goes back to First Nations reconciliation, and the Inuit saying for years "There's a ship in that bay over there, you know" and being ignored ...
 
daftandbarmy said:
And so we enter the dance of who is a First Nation, and who is not....

Don't worry, whatever you do someone will wind up officially, and very publicly, offended in some way ;)
guide#:~:text=M%C3%A9tis%20are%20a%20specific%20Indigenous,are%20never%20considered%20'First%20Nations.[/URL]
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Fear of offending someone is one of the largest barriers to reconciliation.

Thanks for that. I'm a pendant so will adjust my language accordingly. If I'm able I'll go back and edit the post to refect the proper terminology.
 
dapaterson said:
Whereas I'm a pedant.
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:)

yeah yeah we know seth meyers GIF by Late Night with Seth Meyers
 
Metis acutally means "mixed blood". I am sure many of you know this. The Metis people are either French/Indigenous descent or Scottish/Indigenous. So it may be a bit difficult unless you name something "Riel" or "Dumont".

Gabriel Dumont was Riel's "field commander" and the Metis were adept at guerilla tactics, much like the Boers.
 
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Kilted said:
They are also generally forbidden to be worn.
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Maybe in the Army, but definitely not in the RCN or RCAF. RCAF sqns have them and can be worn on the left sleeve.

Also, maybe calling it a "morale" badge may be a bit misleading. It's somewhat official (as in not some random person making an "Embrace the Suck" patch and wearing it) so it's more like an unofficial unit patch.
 
The first meeting of the CSC Naming committee will be in mid May. I'm the secretary for the committee.

Fun fact, prior to Covid the powers that be had decided to continue on with the City Class. That all changed with the pandemic, change at CRCN, and the designation of the class as Destroyers. It will be an interesting discussion for sure.
 
FSTO said:
The first meeting of the CSC Naming committee will be in mid May. I'm the secretary for the committee.

Fun fact, prior to Covid the powers that be had decided to continue on with the City Class. That all changed with the pandemic, change at CRCN, and the designation of the class as Destroyers. It will be an interesting discussion for sure.
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Good luck to them. I really like the idea of using indigenous names - properly approved by the "tribe" involved. I suppose the class cannot be "Tribal" anymore - the OED says it's a bad word, now.

Does a class have to have a name? As I recall the old steamers were the St Laurent and then Annapolis Class, and so on, named after the first ship in their class. I think many people refer to the CPFs as "Halifax Class" and the MCVDVs as "Kingston Class," don't they? Couldn't the new ships be the "Wyandot Class?"
 
^^
First in class is usually the name of the Class of ships. The 280's were called Tribals by most, but their official name was Iroquois Class.

I've had a couple of very un-official conversations with Sask indigenous leaders and veterans groups and they are extremely supportive of using indigenous names (FN/Innu/Metis) for this class of ships. There will be challenges for sure but as I said to the President of the FN University, you never know unless you ask.
 
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