Logistics of Noah‘s Ark

[Nox]

I see some problems with Noah‘s Ark. Please correct me if my information is off.

These are the figures, which if you take literal meaning form the bible, are "fact"

450 feet long
75 feet wide
45 feet high

Upper, middle and lower decks.

Now, either Noah took 2 of each animal (male/female) or 7 of the clean animals and 2 of the unclean animals.

Rain fell for 40 days and 40 nights. The earth was covered for almost one year in water that rose 20 feet above the tallest mountain under the heavens (from the 17th day of the second month of Noah‘s 600th year to the 27th day of the second month of Noah‘s 601st year.

In addition to animals Noah took 3 sons, his wife and thier wives.

Everything that was on the land and in the air excluding the above perished in the deluge.

-----------------------

Now, the problems I see with this if the story is taken literally:

1. Logistics.

There are currently 1.5 to 1.8 million classified animal species on earth today. That‘s just the classified species. The total estimate includes non-classified species and estimate range from 2 million to 100 million additional creatures. This includes everything from bugs and insects to elephants and rhinos.

Now lets, for arguements sake completely lowball the figure and say there were 10000 species on earth at that time. Depending on what numbers you use, that is between 20000 and somewhere around 50000 individual animals.

The space constraints on a boat the size of the ark would both prohibit the animals and the supplies needed to feed those animals for just under a year. If you do the math you will find that the ark is insanely too small.

The second point to this is manpower. How could 8 people possibly care for tens of thousands of animals (if they could fit them into the ark)?

2. Height of the water

It is stated that the water rose to 20 feet above the tops of the highest mountains. That comes out to 29,055 feet above sea level.

Ignoring the explanation of where all this water came from (God did it) this means that everything on earth was surely killed... including plant life.

Noah did not bring any plant life on the ark with him. It would have required an immense greenhouse along with outrageous amounts of space and more required manhours on top of that which was required for the animals.

When the waters receded, how did plant life on earth recover? How did the animals all eat AFTER they disembarked from the ark. The earth would have been a muddy wasteland.

3. sealife

The oceans are salt water. Rain is fresh water. That volume of fresh water mixed with with the saltwater would have prevented the vast majority of both fresh and salt water creatures from surviving. Most can only live in one or the other. How did all the sea life survive?

4. Inbreeding

One that is commonly brought up. You have Noah and his family. At the very least you have breeding taking place between first cousins. Incest is a no-no as well as biologically dangerous. how was this gotten around?

The same holds true for the inbreeding of the animals. If you take the 2X2 story literally that means inbreeding on the first level between siblings.

5. Was the flood not brought about by the wickedness of man? Why was all life on earth destroyed for man‘s transgressions? Why kill all the innocent little ferrets of the world to punish man?

Why not wipe out human-kind in a way that spares the rest of the earth‘s creatures and turns the world into a wasteland?

 

[Ranger]

wow, you sure did do your research

 

[winchable]

If you look at some civilisations and religious texts they have a flood with much distruction etc.

I believe it all started in mess-o-potamia, where the people generally had their mud houses and their crops wiped out every so often by the Tigris and Euphrates. The story has been recycled and changed ever so slightly each time.

So while the story of the civilisation ending flood may in fact be true, the Ark is probably not...hence the reason the logistics don‘t really....work.

 

[Nox]

Originally posted by Che:
[qb] If you look at some civilisations and religious texts they have a flood with much distruction etc.

I believe it all started in mess-o-potamia, where the people generally had their mud houses and their crops wiped out every so often by the Tigris and Euphrates. The story has been recycled and changed ever so slightly each time.

So while the story of the civilisation ending flood may in fact be true, the Ark is probably not...hence the reason the logistics don‘t really....work. [/qb]

So you‘re trying to say that these kind of floods did happen, and that after time the story was bent into what is writen in the Bible today (Or at least most of the versions of it)? So here comes the "telephone game" theory again. Do you really think people would tell tales like that just to gain interest over something that probably ruined another family‘s life?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Science denies faith and without faith i am nothing
-God

 

[winchable]

They‘re not telling tales, it‘s recorded history.

The Tigris and Euphrates were wild unpredictable rivers, however it was neccessary for people to settle next to them. Houses were made of hardened mud, the rivers overflowed and the houses were destroyed.

The events were passed on "Oh this isn‘t where we‘ve always lived, the last house was melted by water over there." Not for entertainment but for historical record.

And yes I do think people would tell stories like that gain interest over things that ruin another families life, it happens alot.

 

[Nox]

Originally posted by Ghost778:
[qb] Science denies faith and without faith i am nothing
-God [/qb]

So basically, God created logic to make himslef illogical?

 

[winchable]

You weren‘t really born in 1990 were you?

I think perhaps that quote may be from a more hardline Christian, science denying, branch of faith.

"BURN THE HERETIC, I DID NOT EVOLVE FROM A MONKEY."

 

[Jarnhamar]

So basically, God created logic to make himslef illogical?

yes.
Simply because he could.

 

[winchable]

"What can I do to make life even more unbearable today?"
-God-

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

where did u find that Che?

 

[winchable]

It‘s a existentialist saying, falsely attributed to God. A joke more or less
I‘m not sure where I remember it from, Sartre maybe, Camus..not sure!
Not from the bible though Lol

 

[Jarnhamar]

Heres one.

And god said to abraham kill me a son.
Abe said you gotta be putting me on.
God said no.
Abe said what?
God said You can do what you want abe but the next time you see me comming you better start running.
Abe says And where do you want this killing done
God says, out on highway 401

 

[stukirkpatrick]

out on highway 401

 

[Duotone81]

I find it quite irritating when people try to dispel stories of faith and the notion of God simply because their everyday 5 senses tell them otherwise. I'm currently reading Brian Greene's â Å“The Fabric Of The Cosmosâ ? and he talks about the possibility of not only 4 dimensions that we currently know of but also 11! 11 dimensions! Well how can this be? Our everyday senses can't understand this conclusion? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is indeed far too much of the universe to understand and we have a limited understanding of it because we evolved (yes I am an evolutionist but do have faith in something far greater then all of us) to a point where we are only aware of things that we can observe from our 5 senses because that is all we needed to survive.

IMHO I think creationism is a pseudo-science and offers no real benefit to anything and serves only to perpetuate archaic fundamentalism with no pursuit to the truth. Having said that I also feel that dismissing the idea of God simply because you haven't physically sensed him is equally absurd. Why else do we actively pursue knowledge of the universe if not to understand why we are here?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The last thing I want to do is get into a religious debate. Anyway, here‘s how I see it.

Almost every culture, around the world, including North & South America, Africa and the East, has a history of this, so called, Great Flood. Surprisingly, they all seem to have taken place at around the same time. This is the only, kinda concrete evidence this MAY have taken place.

Not all mountains known to the local people were the highest in the world. It may have been the highest piece of ground in the area of a five day walk, if they had never gone past this point. The water level would only have had to rise high enough in that area to "float the boat". They had no means to measure true depth.

You take on face value that Noah live over six hundred years, but don‘t believe the amount of animals in the ark. Go one further, how about feeding the multitudes with a couple of fish, some bread and a bottle or two of wine?

The Bible is a book of fable, myth and some fact written by various people over centuries that is taken for, well, gospel by many people. Even the writers within don‘t agree on the so called facts of the same story. There are also many books or chapters fom the Bible that have been excluded, hidden, burned and lost to history by various religious factions who were in control at the time. This was because their religious leaders either couldn‘t explain the events, or the events didn‘t fit their doctrine.

Much of what is written was not witnessed first hand, but passed on verbally for generations til someone wrote it down. And we all know how stories get embellished. People wrote what they wanted others to hear. What about Jesus‘s older brother John? Just as religious and pious. He‘s was equally famous, at the time, to the point of being silenced also, by getting tossed off the Temple wall. Can‘t have two heros at the same time, in the limelight though, can we? Might confuse the issue and split the vote.

As too your point about incest within Noah‘s family, explain how only Adam and Eve populated the earth, with God‘s blessing, even after one of only two sons, Cain, slew Able. No sisters have been mentioned, so did Cain procreate with Eve, his mother? But he took a wife. Where did she come from?

You can be a zealot and believe implicitly without question, or take it as a good read that poses some intriguing questions without commitment. It is far from complete or fact. Religion is built on faith. On the plus side, it provides hope and solice to it‘s believers. On the other end of the scale, it creates war, death and destruction for the closed minded, those unwilling to accept other‘s views.

Either way, although I might be wrong, but this question would be better posed on some religious site where I‘m sure you‘ll get more than enough and, possibly, better qualified discussion.

This may be the Off Topic Forum, but it‘s still a military site. Religious discussion will never reach a concensus. Witness the Middle East, Bosnia or even the Evangelical pundits in North America. Muslim, Buddist, Christian, et al. It ALWAYS breaks down into and argument with varying consequences, be it war or hurt feelings.

I‘ll reserve the option, which I have been entrusted with, to lock this thread if I see it getting too weird or obnoxious. Keep it on the scientific level that it started with or it‘s gone.

 

[alan_li_13]

There‘s only two things u need to know from the Bible: Love God, and Love your fellow man.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

IMHO I think creationism is a pseudo-science and offers no real benefit to anything and serves only to perpetuate archaic fundamentalism with no pursuit to the truth. Having said that I also feel that dismissing the idea of God simply because you haven't physically sensed him is equally absurd.

And I think Nick may have just proved my point.

 

[Pepper]

As was written, the flood story is witnessed in many cultures. I‘m wondering if perhaps it stems from the ending of the last ice age. The ice wouldn‘t have melted quickly, at least not noticable in a lifetime, but over time there would have been signifigant geographical changes.

It may be possible that with stories orally handed down through the generations, that the flood story could be explianed by the receding ice age. As was also mentioned above, the telephone game.

It‘s a long shot, but there is evidence for it. It‘s just the time span that makes it improbable.

 

[Ranger]

I agree with rifle_team_captain, as long as you follow the 10 Commandments, you‘re good to go.