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Mandatory Minimum Sentances Do not Work

Pike

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Mandatory minimum sentences are seductive to citizens unfamiliar with the complexities of crime, and to politicians who want to be seen by those citizens as taking action to protect them. But crime rates are actually declining, and if putting more people in prison for longer and certain periods of time really could make us safer, then our neighbours south of the border would be living in the safest country in the world.
http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/Feb%2006/toughsentance.htm

Please read the full story before responding, as it is important to your knowledge of the issue
 
I read it, and it's all crap.

So, it costs tens of thousands of dollars a year to warehouse a puke.  Know what ?  It's a DEAL.  They do far more damage - monetary wise - to society on the loose, than they cost in prison.

Facts:

1. Most serious crime is committed by a small percentage of repeat offenders.
2. A criminal only lives so long.
3. Most of the crime is committed while they are young (under 60).

Solution:  lock them up until they are very old.  They will never change.  They are all a waste of sperm.  Lock them up, and throw away the key.

The people who want them on the street do so because it's hard to expand your legal/justice/social empire when one of the pillars of the system - the pukes - are out of circulation.

More crooks on the street = more crime on the street.

Oh, notice how they don't like 'gun' violence?  A dead give away.  You see, guns in the hand of a homeowner can HURT a criminal - and we don't want that now, do we?

Tom
 
Several days ago, just down the street from where I live, a young man was badly beaten by a group of youth intent on mugging him because he only had a quarter on his person. To myself, this violent crime is among the most disturbing; an innocent person assaulted by trash for no reason other than to prove their own toughness, to meet their own warped definition of masculinity, or perhaps to pass the time - heaven forbid.

There was a time when I believed in rehabilitation, but as I become more aware of the true, malevolent nature of many of those around me, I came to see imprisonment for what it really should be; punishment. I don't want to see people go to prison in the first place, but if they commit heinous acts, I want to see them pay for it. People like the aforementioned thugs are animals; they have no place in a civilized society.

If they are locked up, they are not out in society with the rest of us. If they commit their evil deeds when they are young, so much the better; the innocence that they have stolen from somebody is repaid through the loss of their youth.

A fair trade. 
 
Pike said:
Mandatory minimum sentences are seductive to citizens unfamiliar with the complexities of crime, and to politicians who want to be seen by those citizens as taking action to protect them. But crime rates are actually declining, and if putting more people in prison for longer and certain periods of time really could make us safer, then our neighbours south of the border would be living in the safest country in the world.
http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/Feb%2006/toughsentance.htm

Please read the full story before responding, as it is important to your knowledge of the issue

Exactly how old are you?


Matthew.  ???
 
Pike said:
Mandatory minimum sentences are seductive to citizens unfamiliar with the complexities of crime, and to politicians who want to be seen by those citizens as taking action to protect them. But crime rates are actually declining, and if putting more people in prison for longer and certain periods of time really could make us safer, then our neighbours south of the border would be living in the safest country in the world.
http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/Feb%2006/toughsentance.htm

Please read the full story before responding, as it is important to your knowledge of the issue

She's a troll. Put her on ignore, and throw away the key.
 
I love how this... person... keeps starting these contentious threads then buggering off before we can engage in any form of discussion. Oh, and I think they're breaking the spam rules on the board, linking to their own website just to get traffic...
 
Pike you seem like a very closed-minded person. Just grow-up. We don't have the time to teach you.
 
Im closed minded? Making statements like that says it all.

This is a forum, im here to engage in discussion.

Sure, I believe minimum sentences for some crimes are warrented, but as a general rule no freakin way!  Crime is not a black and white affair, I believe fully in putting our trust in a judges discretion to hand down sentences. Now of course you can come up with all the t imes Judges handed down lienient sentences and ppl have reoffended. Fine. But look at it the other way. If we had min sentances, how many more people do you believe would be turned into hardened criminals because of increased time?

There are so many circumstances to take into consideration when a crime is committed.
 
"There are so many circumstances to take into consideration when a crime is committed."

- You raise a good point: the victim should consider whether or not the needs of society dictate that the puke must be despatched out of hand to eliminate a further threat to civilization.

Court is for the survivors.

"Call 1911A1 for emergency - call 9-1-1 for clean-up."

Tom
 
Im on Army.ca probation from my niner, so dont flame this foolinteresting person out before I get a chance to respond, please.  Be back at around 11pm local.
 
zipperhead_cop said:
Im on Army.ca probation from my niner, so dont flame this foolinteresting person out before I get a chance to respond, please.  Be back at around 11pm local.
I know that feeling......er.......ummmm.......anyway....we await with baited breath (we will chew Extreme Mints when you return).
 
Pike said:
Im closed minded? Making statements like that says it all.

This is a forum, im here to engage in discussion.

Sure, I believe minimum sentences for some crimes are warrented, but as a general rule no freakin way!  Crime is not a black and white affair, I believe fully in putting our trust in a judges discretion to hand down sentences. Now of course you can come up with all the t imes Judges handed down lienient sentences and ppl have reoffended. Fine. But look at it the other way. If we had min sentances, how many more people do you believe would be turned into hardened criminals because of increased time?

There are so many circumstances to take into consideration when a crime is committed.

You can't spell, you're not a student, and you're unable to engage in a meaningful debate.

Goodbye.
 
nULL said:
You can't spell, you're not a student, and you're unable to engage in a meaningful debate.

Goodbye.

I'm surprised that you just didn't come out and say it......." You are the Weakest Link.....Goooodbye!"
 
I love the idea of chain gangs and forced labour….a good way to give back to society.

DSB
 
Chances are we are dealing with an underaged troll who just started Politics 102 at some hippie liberal university and thinks they know a few things.
First:  Just because it takes up broadband, don't make it so. 
Next:  From the "illuminating" article At the same time, the "get tough" approach fails to address some of the root causes of crime such as persistent poverty, unemployment, lack of educational opportunities and social marginalization and will not reduce crime or create safer streets. Even if just half of the $7 billion currently spent on imprisoning people was invested in health, education, housing, welfare and other community-based services, the resulting resources would benefit whole communities, not merely those who are criminalized as a result of their attempts to survive increasingly inhospitable communities.

That would be delightful if there ever was a "get tough approach".  Right now it is a "get the file off my docket" approach. 
How can anyone argue that there is any genuine poverty in Canada?  Because of some antiquated statistic that claims that anyone spending over 60 percent of their household income on living expenses is below the poverty line (not sure about that number).  Gee, I guess I live in poverty, and so do my kids.  No one lives in tar paper shacks unless they want to, no one dies on the street unless they want to.  So unless people are going to support State enforced administration of medication for street people (the only truly needy that are out there) everyone can manage if they choose to. 
Screw the social services.  Make more prisons, lock up more people for longer.  I've never met a "hardened" criminal.  I have met many habitual offenders that know the system is a joke and don't give two craps about what sentence they are handed.  No one does "hard time".  Jails are workout and adult ed centers where the useless whittle away their time and brush up on usefull skill like safe cracking, b&e's and disarming police (Bruce Monkhouse can back that up).  They provide nothing more than inconvenience and boredom for the non-self starter. 
As far as the "inhospitable communities" are they not also the FREE housing that we are paying for?  I thought we finished throwing money at ghetto's for the last 20 years and were trying to do something different?  Want to raise your kid in an environment that is not all icky and labelling?  A)  DONT GET FRIGGIN PREGNANT UNTIL YOU CAN AFFORD A KID!!! B) If you do have a burning need to sire children from random DNA sources, then make a conscious decision to not raise them ghetto, git yer ass a job and an education and then ***POOF*** welcome back to normal society.
I just got back from Florida and there were stickers all over the place with regards to their mandatory violent offence laws.  They looked something like this:
10-20-LIFE
PULL A GUN--10 YEARS
SHOOT A GUN--20 YEARS
SHOOT A PERSON--25 YEARS TO LIFE
See, to me that makes sense.  If the judges want to treat shoplifting, auto theft, home and business break and enters, drunk driving, assaults and death threats, child porn, indecent exposure, criminal harassment, drug possession, breaching judicial orders and probations and a variety of other offences as not being against the law with respect to sentencing, then it doesn't look like anyone is going to be able to stop them from applying their socialist agenda against those offences.  But at least for weapons offences and serious violent crimes, there needs to be minimum sentences, and where they exist they need to be enforced. 
Cost?  Who gives a crap?  All governments waste so much money on the most retarded things that I would love to see my money going to something that mattered. 
Declining crime rates?  Bullshit.  I imagine it is as a result of declining CONVICTION rates, since it is such a piece of cake to get adult diversions and absolute discharges for all of the above mentioned offences. 
As for this offensive line of feces:

Like most people in Canada, I abhor violence and am extremely concerned about gun-related offences. But a simplistic response of longer and more punitive sentencing flies in the face of evidence from around the world. And it won't protect my children or yours.   :rage:

Most people in Canada?  So some people in Canada celebrate violence?  Extremely concerned?  As in "hmmm, gee.  That is a terrible shame.  Wish someone would do something about that.  Let's build a basket ball court in an inner city area.  That will help everything".  Evidence around the world?  Who gives a fig about the rest of the world?  Lets take care of right here!  Just because the United States is an out of control cluster hump of criminality and gun violence doesn't mean that we are not accelerating in that direction and we could nip this thing off NOW if people would just support some more direct methods.  Like "put a bad guy in jail longer than a month". 
Hell, I could even live without the mandatory sentencing if a$$hats even did the time they were sentenced to.  Double and triple time credit for dead time, 1/3 of actual time in jail for sentence given.  If some dink managed to get sentenced to one year in jail (and that is a pretty huge sentence) why does he need to get out early to "readjust" to normal life? 
It won't protect your children?  Gee, too bad your children are in jail somewhere.  MY children are most certainly protected by a criminal being in jail. 

There are so many patently ridiculous statements in that article that I am not even going to get into a rant over it (hmm, too late maybe).  The statistics are unqualified, the sources are unnamed, the whole thing is a dogs granola breakfast.

I want my webcounter number back.

 
There was a series of articles in the Vancouver Province over the last year, one was about our top drug dealers, and another about our car thieves.  Now these articles were in response to a waive of drug related killings and home invasions (often of the wrong home), and deaths as the result of car-thieves.  In both cases, the leading offenders ( the local top ten) were all in their twenties, with between twenty and forty convictions.  Not charges, convictions.  Now call me crazy, but if we had mandatory sentencing there are more than a few people who would still be alive, hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage that would have been prevented, and untold human suffering would not have occurred.  Spare me the law=racism crap, in white neighborhoods it is white criminals, in East Indian neighborhoods it is East Indian criminals, in Asian neighborhoods it is Asian criminals, they prey on their own because they are too lazy and stupid to look for anyone else to prey upon.  Mandatory sentences keep habitual recidivist offenders off the streets because they just cant stop offending, as a result, the 1% of the white, black, Asian, east Indian population that are criminals will be unable to continue to prey upon the 99% that are law abiding citizens.  Don't spend your time looking at the colour of the faces in the defendants docket, look at the faces of the victims, they are usually the same colour, and they are the ones who actually count.
 
I don't reckon we need to debate this stuff any further than we have unless it interests the real posters.  I was cruising around that hippie site and it is pretty sad.  Mostly uneducated Michael Moore wanna be's.  If you look at the last posting dates it looks like the board is dying, so Pike probably hoped to sucker in a couple of us to go lob some "inflammatory" comments on her board to get it going.  Their lack of a spell checker for the posts is also painfully apparent.
BTW I did let myself get suckered into registering and threw up a couple of posts, just to see what it is liked to get flamed by hippies.  I'm curious what it will be like to be in a socialist warning system.  Maybe if I promise to plant a tree, I can stay on forever, no matter what I post!
 
"Maybe if I promise to plant a tree, I can stay on forever, no matter what I post!"

- You'd have to hire one of them at $1,000 an hour as an environmental consultant before you planted the tree.  The may be Commies, but they DO like to live well.

Tom
 
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