Manitoba bus stabbing/ beheading

[zipperhead_cop]

Just another day in the *cough* Justicelegal system.............not even remotely news to those who work it.

Fixed it for you    That other word died a long time ago. 

 

[FastEddy]

Just another day in the *cough* Justice system.............not even remotely news to those who work it.

Bruce I just don't know, I just can't find the words to express my Disgust and to say your so right.

Cheers.

 

[Lil_T]

Picking at old wounds here......

Hearing concerned with Vincent Li's comfort
Article Link
By TOM BRODBECK, The Winnipeg Sun

WINNIPEG -- Now that psycho-killer Vince Li has had his day in court before a sympathetic Criminal Code review board, perhaps we could now convene a hearing for the family of Tim McLean to scope out what needs they have and how the state can help them, too.

Monday's hearing was all about Vince Li -- what he needs, how much better he's doing mentally, how he requested and received a Chinese Bible and what kind of facility he should be housed in.

The review board was very concerned about Mr. Li's feelings and how he may be react if Tim McLean's family read their victim impact statements in front of him in a courtroom Monday. It might hurt his feelings, they thought.

But psychiatrist Stanley Yaren, Li's shrink and advocate, told the board Monday he thought Li would be OK with it. That's super.

No one asked the family how they would feel if they were robbed of the opportunity to make their victim impact statements in front of Li.

After all, this was all about Mr. Li and making sure he's comfortable, not the family. The review board is concerned mostly with ensuring Li is in a good facility with a pleasant environment, where he can watch movies and play cards.

They're also concerned the 24/7 supervision of Li by two correctional officers may now be excessive. Better stop that. It might infringe on Mr. Li's dignity.

So now that we've done all this, shouldn't we turn our attention to the family? They're getting virtually no help or support from the justice system, even though -- through no fault of their own -- they are now in a crisis situation.

And compared with Li, who has round-the-clock support, free meals, medication and nice running shoes, the family is getting next to nothing.

Carol deDelley, Tim McLean's mother, used to drive a school bus before her son was killed.

She had to leave that job, at least for now, and is on long-term disability. She can't drive the school kids anymore because she doesn't have the confidence nor the level of concentration required to perform that very important job.

Her long-term disability pays only half of what she was earning. Anybody going to help out Ms. deDelley, whose life has been turned upside down by this nightmare?

There's lots of help for poor Mr. Li. But there's not much for the family, who are the real victims here.

Perhaps we should have a hearing to determine what kind of support Tim McLean's family should get, including financial support and crisis intervention.

The family was denied standing at Li's hearing. Maybe we could have one where the family gets standing and Li's lawyers don't so we could hear from them and get their input on the situation, including what should happen to Li.

Our justice system is so hopelessly focused on the offender, it excludes almost entirely the needs of the victims and their families.

It was repugnant watching Li's shrink and his lawyer fawning all over him Monday, making sure he was comfortable as family members sat there, shut out of the proceedings and forced to read censored versions of their victim impact statements.

It was obscene.

The least the justice system could do now is hold a hearing for the family to canvass their views and to identify their needs.

I'm not holding my breath.

For more, visit Brodbeck's blog Raise a Little Hell at winnipegsun.com.

Three words -

WHAT THE FUCK?

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Three words -

WHAT THE FUCK?

The article is being facecious in many places.  The point is, now that whackjob has been deemed not criminally responsible, he will be treated as a person with a medical condition and efforts to make him better will be pursued.  This means all the mental trauma of people giving him mean looks and what not may be precluded, because it may be contrary to his getting better. 
Just in case you thought you might see victim rights get trampled in the event of him being found guilty, just watch how badly they get mauled now that he is a "patient".  Also, don't be surprised if somebody moves heaven and earth to get this guy a new identity and spirits him off to a new part of Canada once he is "better" so he can have a "fair chance at a normal life". 
Which is more than Tim got. 

 

[BernDawg]

All I can think about is that salsa commercial from years ago... "get a rope"

 

[Yrys]

I prefer the following title :

Bus beheader to remain under heavy security

A provincial review board has ruled that Vince Li, the man who beheaded a fellow passenger aboard
a Grehound bus, must remain under heavy security at a Manitoba psychiatric facility.

Li is currently under supervision at a secure ward of the Health Sciences Centre. But he will now be
transferred to the high-risk ward at the Selkirk Mental Health Centre when room is available. The
board's chairman, John Stefaniuk, said the decision was based on recommendations from Li's psychiatrist.
He told the Winnipeg Free Press that detailed reasons for the decision would be prepared in the next few
months, but the information may not be made public. "That's still something we're going to be discussing,"
he said.

Last March, a judge found Li not criminally responsible for killing Tim McLean as the bus travelled near
Portage La Prairie, Man. Li was remanded to a secure psychiatric facility. The board had to decide whether
Li should remain in an institution, be given a conditional release or an absolute discharge.

McLean's mother, Carol de Delley, had said she did not want to see Li released. "I'm certain that they will
hold him," de Delley told Canada AM on Monday. "I believe today all they're going to do is determine
where they're going to hold him."

Twenty-two-year-old McLean had been asleep in the seat beside Li prior to the brutal attack, which sent
passengers running from the bus. Justice John Scurfield said in his ruling that while the murder was indeed
"appalling," Li "did not appreciate the act he committed was morally wrong. He believed he was acting in
self defence and that he had been commanded by God to do so."

Both the Crown and the defence agreed that Li is schizophrenic and was suffering from a psychotic episode
when he killed the young man. Because he was declared not criminally responsible for the murder, Li will
not have a criminal record. However, he must submit his DNA into a registry in the event that he is one
day released and suspected of another crime.

With files from The Canadian Press

 

[mariomike]

Tim McLean's mother has requested the bus be taken out of service:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iC6UGjlBwIfrM4dbOYcJXIKPiVrw

 

[gcclarke]

Tim McLean's mother has requested the bus be taken out of service:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iC6UGjlBwIfrM4dbOYcJXIKPiVrw

Random people expect a company to abandon an asset valued over a hundred thousand dollars because of random event that happened on said asset.

I'm sorry, but the fact that this is getting press is honestly just stupid. If someone gets murdered in a house, do the relatives of the victim expect the house to be burned down so that no one is reminded of the crime? No. That would be stupid. Should the rules change when the asset in question is owned by a corporation rather than an individual? No.

Not to mention the fact that, from the perspective of the family, the only way they'd know if the bus is still on the road is if they ask. It's not like they're going to take the bus one day and notice that their son's spinal fluid is still splattered on the window. That stuff got cleaned up, and rather well I imagine. Take 5 buses, one of them being the one on which the murder took place, and guess what, the family wouldn't be able to tell which one was the crime scene, barring the use of unique identifiers like license plate, VIN, or some type of company ID number.

This is honestly just the family asking someone else to pay a great deal of money for little to no actual benefit to themselves.

 

[mariomike]

A Greyhound spokeswoman said that although the company will not retire the bus, they did retire its number.

 

[PMedMoe]

I'm sorry, but the fact that this is getting press is honestly just stupid. If someone gets murdered in a house, do the relatives of the victim expect the house to be burned down so that no one is reminded of the crime? No. That would be stupid.

Didn't they demolish the house of Bernardo and Holmolka?

Actually, gcclarke, I agree with you.  It was no different after 9/11 when they cut scenes of the Twin Towers out of every movie, TV show, etc, etc.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Retire Li, not the bus..........

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Random people expect a company to abandon an asset valued over a hundred thousand dollars because of random event that happened on said asset.

I'm sorry, but the fact that this is getting press is honestly just stupid. If someone gets murdered in a house, do the relatives of the victim expect the house to be burned down so that no one is reminded of the crime? No. That would be stupid. Should the rules change when the asset in question is owned by a corporation rather than an individual? No.

Not to mention the fact that, from the perspective of the family, the only way they'd know if the bus is still on the road is if they ask. It's not like they're going to take the bus one day and notice that their son's spinal fluid is still splattered on the window. That stuff got cleaned up, and rather well I imagine. Take 5 buses, one of them being the one on which the murder took place, and guess what, the family wouldn't be able to tell which one was the crime scene, barring the use of unique identifiers like license plate, VIN, or some type of company ID number.

This is honestly just the family asking someone else to pay a great deal of money for little to no actual benefit to themselves.

I am actually surprised at your lack of compassion for them in this post, and "spinal fluid splattered..." comment was just tasteless.

Maybe, logically, it doesn't make sense to you.  I hardly think the family is "logically thinking" about this, as I know I certainly wouldn't be if it had of been my daughter who was murdered on the bus.

Maybe some compassion for the family would be nice.  It is a bus, it can be replaced.

Their son, on the other hand, can not...

 

[the 48th regulator]

Didn't they demolish the house of Bernardo and Holmolka?

Actually, gcclarke, I agree with you.  It was no different after 9/11 when they cut scenes of the Twin Towers out of every movie, TV show, etc, etc.

That was because the house was owned by Bernardo.

Greyhound owns the bus, and I doubt that they would be will to destroy the bus, considering the amount it would cost to purchase a new one.

Unfortunately, that is the corporate life.  If we went and destroyed every structure a murder was committed, well, we would all be living in a barren waste land, wouldn't you agree?

dileas

tess

 

[PMedMoe]

Unfortunately, that is the corporate life.  If we went and destroyed every structure a murder was committed, well, we would all be living in a barren waste land, wouldn't you agree?

Of course I agree.  I was just pointing out that the destruction of a building associated with murder(s) had been done before.

 

[gcclarke]

I am actually surprised at your lack of compassion for them in this post, and "spinal fluid splattered..." comment was just tasteless.

Maybe, logically, it doesn't make sense to you.  I hardly think the family is "logically thinking" about this, as I know I certainly wouldn't be if it had of been my daughter who was murdered on the bus.

Maybe some compassion for the family would be nice.  It is a bus, it can be replaced.

Their son, on the other hand, can not...

I appreciate that they've been through an ordeal, and that they're not thinking logically. However, that doesn't, in my mind, justify making outrageous demands. I mean, what if this had happened on a plane instead? Would they still be demanding that the plane be put out of service? Or perhaps a cruise ship? Or a mall?

Is it merely because a bus is acceptably "cheap" to the company and their shareholders that these demands are acceptable? It is a bus and it can be replaced, but there is no real reason to do so. It's been thoroughly cleaned up.

Grayhound has taken enough of a hit to their business over this whole affair. To expect them to stop using a perfectly good bus is just too much.

 

[mariomike]

Grayhound has taken enough of a hit to their business over this whole affair.

The hits keep on coming. Greyhound was sensitive enough to remove their "bus rage" ads. However, the family is reported to have a lawsuit against Greyhound.
Also, they are ( reportedly ) suing the RCMP: "caused irreparable damage and injury thereby allowing (the killer) to defile the body of the deceased."
http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=631e9712-7eb2-4d6f-a99d-47b9d712dc9f

 

[the 48th regulator]

Maybe some compassion for the family would be nice.  It is a bus, it can be replaced.

Their son, on the other hand, can not...

Start up a charitable drive to buy the bus, and have it destroyed.  Show your compassion to another unfortunate victim, Greyhound.

dileas

tess

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I appreciate that they've been through an ordeal, and that they're not thinking logically. However, that doesn't, in my mind, justify making outrageous demands. I mean, what if this had happened on a plane instead? Would they still be demanding that the plane be put out of service? Or perhaps a cruise ship? Or a mall?

Is it merely because a bus is acceptably "cheap" to the company and their shareholders that these demands are acceptable? It is a bus and it can be replaced, but there is no real reason to do so. It's been thoroughly cleaned up.

Grayhound has taken enough of a hit to their business over this whole affair. To expect them to stop using a perfectly good bus is just too much.

Hmmm.  I don't know.  I can see your point, but when I put my "if I were the father" hat on, I can see theirs, too.

In light of the post by MarioMike re: "we are going to sue everyone", I think my support for their stance has changed somewhat.  Sort of went from a single shot to a canister round there IMO.

Having said that, if the family felt "justice was served" in our legal system, maybe they wouldn't be motivated to sue everyone.

My end state?  I feel horrible for the family and hope they find some peace in the future. 

I feel less horrible for the bus company. 

 

[mariomike]

"Ground passes suggested for bus beheader:
WINNIPEG — Justice officials are opposing a recommendation that Greyhound killer Vincent Li be allowed daily ground passes at the Selkirk Mental Health Centre.":
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/05/31/14203706.html

 

[old medic]

Security upgrades complete, Li to walk
By Winnipeg Sun
Last Updated: December 3, 2010 9:43pm
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/manitoba/2010/12/03/16424516.html

The security upgrades required for Vince Li to take escorted walks around the Selkirk Mental Health Centre have now been completed.

Li, who is schizophrenic, has been living in the Selkirk facility’s locked forensic ward since March 2009, after he was found not criminally responsible for the brutal slaying of Tim McLean, whom he stabbed and partly cannibalized aboard a Greyhound bus west of Portage la Prairie in July 2008.

A spokesman for Health Minister Theresa Oswald said Friday that the upgrades were completed “as of this week.” He would not say when Li’s walks will begin or whether they already have, noting he’s not at liberty to publicly discuss “individual patient treatment plans.”

The upgrades were necessary to accommodate a Criminal Code Review Board ruling that Li be granted escorted walks around the unfenced grounds and to other areas of the complex like the gym, chapel and library. The plans included the hiring of two more full-time security officers who will be dedicated to escorting Li and other forensic mental health patients on walks.

The walks will only occur at times when staffing levels are at their peak and the risk will be assessed before each walk is granted. RCMP were also to be notified when Li’s walks were to begin.