Map symbol for OP

[cupper]

Do I have to bring out the ruler here?  :clubinhand:

Although in our case, being crewmen, a yardstick might better suffice ;D

What do you need the other 35 inches on the yardstick for? :nana:

 

[ballz]

Friendly OP -blue triangle with a black slash through it from the lower left corner to the upper right side, bisecting it.

What does the black slash indicate?

...and seeing that I've taught on a "few" courses at the Armour School, I might just know what I'm talking about.

/sarcasm

Not trying to be hard to get along with, just that the Infantry School is teaching us differently. I wasn't taught anything with the black slash, and was always taught to use the branch indicator if that info was given. I would have thought all of this was pretty damn standardized but, I guess I should know better by now than to assume that :facepalm:

 

[MikeL]

What does the black slash indicate?

If I remember correctly, it means the OP is occupied.

 

[George Wallace]

What does the black slash indicate?

Not trying to be hard to get along with, just that the Infantry School is teaching us differently. I wasn't taught anything with the black slash, and was always taught to use the branch indicator if that info was given. I would have thought all of this was pretty damn standardized but, I guess I should know better by now than to assume that :facepalm:

The Black Slash is the indicator for RECCE

 

[Franko]

If I remember correctly, it means the OP is occupied.

It would be a hash lined triangle for a proposed op, solid for occupied.

Regards

 

[George Wallace]

If I remember correctly, it means the OP is occupied.

If the OP is occupied, the Triangle is solid.  If it is unoccupied, the triangle is dashed lines.  Look in the references I posted earlier in this thread.  They are the Map Symbol book and they explain everything.

 

[MikeL]

If the OP is occupied, the Triangle is solid.  If it is unoccupied, the triangle is dashed lines.  Look in the references I posted earlier in this thread.  They are the Map Symbol book and they explain everything.

Ack, I'm going off a aide memoir I have and it conflicts a little with what you and Nerf herder are saying, etc.

It would be a hash lined triangle for a proposed op, solid for occupied.

Regards

Out of curiosity is this a Armour School standard or NATO standard?

I just double checked my aide memoir(from the Inf School), and for OP it has

solid triangle OP
solid triangle with hash marks pointing outwards around it is a Combat OP
solid triangle with a line going from bottom left to the middle of the right side is a Occupied OP
plus the triangles with different symbols for NBC, listening/sensor, etc.

 

[GnyHwy]

.

 

[George Wallace]

Ack, I'm going off a aide memoir I have and it conflicts a little with what you and Nerf herder are saying, etc.

Out of curiosity is this a Armour School standard or NATO standard?

I just double checked my aide memoir(from the Inf School), and for OP it has

solid triangle OP
solid triangle with hash marks pointing outwards around it is a Combat OP
solid triangle with a line going from bottom left to the middle of the right side is a Occupied OP
plus the triangles with different symbols for NBC, listening/sensor, etc.

Those are right out of APP-6A, which is an American pub to NATO standards.  READ it and you will find all your answers.  The Armour School and all other Schools teach the same standards and will ref APP-6A.

 

[MikeL]

The Armour School and all other Schools teach the same standards and will ref APP-6A.

Apparently not, at least not for the reference material. The aide memoir I have came off the course material website(DWAN) and was made by the Infantry School.

Looks like I'll be making a few amendments on the electronic copy I have.

 

[GnyHwy]

NATO symbol or not.  If I am controlling a BG map, I am using a blue rectangle, squad size and whatever arm indicator/CS/higher HQ is appropriate.  If this is a coy map, then use whatever you want, even their first name if you're air force. 

Whatever is decided, someone please tell the persons making the BMS software, otherwise we are FUBR'd.   

 

[Franko]

Apparently not, at least not for the reference material. The aide memoir I have came off the course material website(DWAN) and was made by the Infantry School.

Looks like I'll be making a few amendments on the electronic copy I have.

There was some issues a couple years ago between the three schools on some of the symbology used, seems there was some being made up by people who thought their way was the correct way. Even contacting some friends in the Int world to clarify some stuff lead to minor inconsistencies and it being passed on to students.

Again, minor issues that have been sorted out.

NATO symbology hasn't changed and Canada uses it. It's beaten to death at the Armour School and even to the point that some DS had to be retaught some to ensure the standard was adhered to for traces that students were being assessed on.

Also, some electronic versions are incorrect as they were more than likely made by civilian companies. I had brought a few issues forward to get remedied and it took a few months of almost constant follow ups to ensure it was done.

As for BG or Bde maps, who do you think gives the CPs and HQs their information? The Bde Recce assets.   

Regards

 

[ballz]

The Black Slash is the indicator for RECCE

Sorry, I knew that, just had not ever been taught to use it for the triangle so it wasn't clicking in my head I guess. Seems sort of pointless to point out that an OP is "recce." In the infantry, it might not be the Recce Pl manning the OP. It seems like it would make more sense to have the branch indicator and the C/S next to it.

There was some issues a couple years ago between the three schools on some of the symbology used, seems there was some being made up by people who thought their way was the correct way. Even contacting some friends in the Int world to clarify some stuff lead to minor inconsistencies and it being passed on to students.

Again, minor issues that have been sorted out.

I'm not sure it's entirely sorted out at the schools, as of last summer and fall when I was a candidate anyway. There still seems to be some inconsistencies in what's being taught and what's in the publication...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If I had to, and I don't  , I'd still use the same symbols as I posted above.

No person, Div HQ down, would have any problem understanding what I was trying to convey, with my simple little triangles.

People that try to overthink, add their own idiosyncrasies, add too much info, etc, to map boards, just make it really, really hard for the poor fucker that has to keep updating the map that most highers don't give a rat's ass about or even understand.

That's why guys like that get briefs.

In most cases.

Some genuinely care and understand, but they're not everywhere..........................................unfortunately.

Put a triangle down. They know where Regt X is, they'll know it's their OP.

Time to give this a rest, before some newb reads here and marks an OP with a square, slashed with an X, with wheels and three different Arms indicators.

WAIT! That sounds like an impromptu smoker!!!

 

[myself.only]

Apparently not, at least not for the reference material. The aide memoir I have came off the course material website(DWAN) and was made by the Infantry School.

No doubt similar to the pub I was looking over.... with the four different frame shapes from 1999; squares are neutral, unknown is.... what was that?  Two crossed ovals?  Looked like what I do when I'm snowshoeing 

Anyway, good ol' Blue is friendly, Red or double-lines ain't... so much simpler eh?
And if that's good enough for the Armour School then it works for me.

 

[McG]

A few map symbol references are floating aobut this site.

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

As a matter of pure pointless/pedantic/historical interest; when did Recce pick up/adopt the slash symbology?
considering the slash was historically (at least until WWI {??}) used for Cavalry.

I can certainly see the association with the auxiliary role of scouting associated with the Cavalry but I'm interested if  the marginalization of Calvary in WWI to a scouting role (LSH notwithstanding) was the cause.

 

[Good2Golf]

If I had to, and I don't  , I'd still use the same symbols as I posted above.

No person, Div HQ down, would have any problem understanding what I was trying to convey, with my simple little triangles.

People that try to overthink, add their own idiosyncrasies, add too much info, etc, to map boards, just make it really, really hard for the poor fucker that has to keep updating the map that most highers don't give a rat's ass about or even understand.

That's why guys like that get briefs.

In most cases.

Some genuinely care and understand, but they're not everywhere..........................................unfortunately.

Put a triangle down. They know where Regt X is, they'll know it's their OP.

Time to give this a rest, before some newb reads here and marks an OP with a square, slashed with an X, with wheels and three different Arms indicators.

WAIT! That sounds like an impromptu smoker!!!

:nod:

Heck, even as an Air/Avn guy, I know that an OP is a triangle, and can be further defined with functional indicators; recce, FOP, CBRN, cut outpost, etc...  I have never heard of Div/Bde/BG/CbtTm/etc... using a rectangle for an OP.  ???

...and I keep neither an APP-6A, nor a B-GL-331-002/FP-001 under my pillow. 


Regards
G2G

 

[Journeyman]

...and I keep neither an APP-6A, nor a B-GL-331-002/FP-001 under my pillow......anymore

      ;D

 

[jeffb]

I can certainly see the association with the auxiliary role of scouting associated with the Cavalry but I'm interested if  the marginalization of Cavalry in WWI to a scouting role (LSH notwithstanding) was the cause.

That trend actually happened long before the First World War. Cavalry in the US Civil War had the primary function, in both armies, of maintaining contact with the other side (recce). The secondary role was that of raiders. Usually, both sides dismounted their troopers in any engagement and the few examples of cavalry attacking "in the saddle" were almost always met with disaster. I'd cite the charge of Kilpatrick's troopers on the 3rd day of Gettysburg AFTER Pickett's charge as one such example although there are others

To go with the original question though about why did recce adopt the map symbol for cavalry, I suspect that it ties into my earlier point. Dedicated recce that was not cavalry mounted really only became practical in the First and really the Second World War so it makes sense to me that the symbol would just carry over to describe the function rather then the particular method of recce. I'm generalizing here a bit as there was limited infantry based recce utilized by the Army of the Potomac through the Bureau of Military Intelligence but it's was the cavalry that was the primary recce force in that era.