Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The Gate vessels were 24 years old when I joined. We were told that they would be replaced within five years to 6 years.

I ended up as last captain on two of them - 24 years later.

Just saying!

 

[Stoker]

Seen the thread and its pretty interesting to hear all the rumours.  HMCS KINGSTON is coming up to 17 years old and is still going strong. 12 new complete DA's were just purchased, new radars a few years ago, new degausing gear, dynamic positioning system, new HF being planned etc so as systems wear out are being upgraded.
Like the Admiral said last summer, why would I get rid of the MCDV's when they are cheap to operate. I would imagine the MCDV's will be around for a few more years yet. If I was a betting man at least 2020.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Seen the thread and its pretty interesting to hear all the rumours.  HMCS KINGSTON is coming up to 17 years old and is still going strong. 12 new complete DA's were just purchased, new radars a few years ago, new degausing gear, dynamic positioning system, new HF being planned etc so as systems wear out are being upgraded.
Like the Admiral said last summer, why would I get rid of the MCDV's when they are cheap to operate. I would imagine the MCDV's will be around for a few more years yet. If I was a betting man at least 2020.

The CF is trying to expand its footprint into the Caribbean and South Americas as well.  These Vessels are perfectly suited for that operating environment and deployments such as OP CARIBBE.

 

[Stoker]

The CF is trying to expand its footprint into the Caribbean and South Americas as well.  These Vessels are perfectly suited for that operating environment and deployments such as OP CARIBBE.

Absolutely the KINGSTON class is well suited for OP CARIBBE deployments and have doing that annually for several years now.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Absolutely the KINGSTON class is well suited for OP CARIBBE deployments and have doing that annually for several years now.

They are generally just good little all purpose ships.  In a lot of cases, they can do a lot of the routine items just as well for much, much less (fuel, food, maintenance etc).  Another good example is the trip up north (NORPLOY?)  And with some of the new gear coming onboard, they will have a big role to play in sea bed mapping, which is kind of a big deal for any claims to the artic.  For all the lack of respect they get, those ships get far more sea days then any of the heavies, and they are so ridiculously stable that it's not an easy ride either.

 

[mad dog 2020]

Oddly enough, I was hooked on the Australian TV series "Sea Patrol" which ran (or is still running) for 5 seasons.  I know it is only fiction but based on the concept, they seem to get a lot done.
Is there some duplication of service between the Coast Guard and Navy.
Is the empire building crossing lines for survival and fiscal reasons.
Should they be phased out as they seem to have a purpose, just too much internal politics.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Coast guard does a lot of things that the navy doesn't and vice versa.  There is some overlap on SAR and maritime security, but not a whole lot.

Some of the MCDV capabilities are particular to them.  Now that the ORCAs have taken back over some of the MARs training, it should free them up to get back to the stuff they were built to do. They have their own limitations, but I think if they have a bad rap it's because they have been regularly used to do things on the outer limits of their intended purpose.

 

[AlexanderM]

Oddly enough, I was hooked on the Australian TV series "Sea Patrol" which ran (or is still running) for 5 seasons.  I know it is only fiction but based on the concept, they seem to get a lot done.
Is there some duplication of service between the Coast Guard and Navy.
Is the empire building crossing lines for survival and fiscal reasons.
Should they be phased out as they seem to have a purpose, just too much internal politics.

I watched it too.  Not much firepower, but good speed and look.  To me, the Kingston Class is too slow, doesn't sound like the replacements, should they happen, will be that much faster.  A patrol boat should be hitting 30 knots, not 15.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I watched it too.  Not much firepower, but good speed and look.  To me, the Kingston Class is too slow, doesn't sound like the replacements, should they happen, will be that much faster.  A patrol boat should be hitting 30 knots, not 15.

Haha be careful what you wish for!  Ask for a cigar boat:

and you may get this:

;D ;D

 

[Navy_Pete]

I watched it too.  Not much firepower, but good speed and look.  To me, the Kingston Class is too slow, doesn't sound like the replacements, should they happen, will be that much faster.  A patrol boat should be hitting 30 knots, not 15.

I depends what you need them for.  They aren't going to run anyone down, but even 30 knots is slow compared to some of the smuggling boats.  Unless they go to some kind of surface skimmer that hits 40 or 50 knots, better to go with some kind of air support (armed UAVs?) and keep one or two fast attack boats onboard the patrol ship for boarding parties.  Put a few anti ship missiles onboard (with ROEs to use them) and then you'll have a real deterrent.  We don't do that though, so they may get replaced with a few sexy carbon fibre canoes with an outboard and a guy with a C6. 

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

We don't do that though, so they may get replaced with a few sexy carbon fibre canoes with an outboard and a guy with a C6.

Plan set in motion.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Plan set in motion.

I love the trawling motor 0.1 knots per hour it is!

 

[MARS]

but I think if they have a bad rap

I'm not convinced they have a bad rap.  They certainly have many limitations but they are still routinely used for missions well outside of their intended scope.

Sure, if you are the Combat Officer in a FFG/DDH, then yes, looking at your own missions and requirements, a MCDV might not have much utility for you and some might take a derisive attitude toward them.  However, if you are the people that matter, by that I mean CCFL/P or CMARL/P, (heck, even if you are N3/N31/N31-1: they folks who actually have to implement higher Command direction) with more missions to conduct than platforms to conduct them with, the value, utility and 'rap' of a KINGSTON Class MM is much higher.

my 2 cents

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Upgrade the gun, some basic counter measures and fit for Hellfire/stingers, etc. A little more teeth would be good. Always thought these small ships were a great idea and the fact that they armed them showed a change in thinking from the ships they replaced. Frankly I don't think any new small naval vessel should be built without armament on it, or at least fitted for it. It's a bit about mindset and the fact if things went strange you really don't have the luxury of time to prepare defenses like the last wars.

 

[AlexanderM]

Upgrade the gun, some basic counter measures and fit for Hellfire/stingers, etc. A little more teeth would be good.

Yes! And anti-submarine can be done with mission module.  Also, have some kind of UAV as was previously mentioned. There are some patrol boats with harpoon missles, the point being, can still be capable with teeth, even if small.

 

[dimsum]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they test-fly ScanEagles off MCDVs?  Or was it just the CPFs?

 

[TwoTonShackle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they test-fly ScanEagles off MCDVs?  Or was it just the CPFs?

Yes, they successfully tested the Scan Eagle set up off the GLACE BAY in fall of 2009.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Yes! And anti-submarine can be done with mission module.  Also, have some kind of UAV as was previously mentioned. There are some patrol boats with harpoon missles, the point being, can still be capable with teeth, even if small.

So what your saying is the name for these new ships needs to be the Honey Badger Class

 

[dapaterson]

But how do you translate that into French?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

With the continuing involvement of AUV's, I expect to see small vessels like this becoming effective mine and sub hunters, literally being a "depot ship" for a fleet of AUV's, similar to the flying boat depots ships of old. I can see slow moving AUV's that have various sound signatures uploaded into them, they swim slowly listening for those signatures or similar ones and then they signal the ship with locations, bearings , tracks.

As for speed, you give up a lot to get speed in a small ship. A smaller ship that has the endurance and the seakeeping to stay on station is also valuable and sometimes more important than the fast missile boat stuck in the harbour because of the seastate.