Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Oldgateboatdriver]

While the armament is light, even for a modern corvette, I wouldn't put the USCG's new Heritage class offshore cutters in the corvette category, not at 110 m. long and 3700 tons displacement.

I do agree that they consider that type of vessel's weaponry to be sufficient for the task of continental defence. As for what Canada considers it's "home game", well, somewhere, gathering dust, there is a Coastal Defence Plan (MAOP 322 IIRC) that states what we are trying to achieve as our home game.

Again, IIRC, it consisted of providing Port Security (that concept was seen in action during the Vancouver olympics: RHIb's close in, Orca's as second layer, MCDV's outside perimeters), then the equivalent of the old Naval Officer in Charge org to liaise with all maritime agencies, then coastal surveillance against surface intrusions in Canadian territory (in conjunction with Border Services), including vessel inspection duties, and protection against terror threats, including low level mining and sabotage divers.

ASW and Air defence remained with the main fleet and RCAF as it is carried out jointly with our NATO partners, for the Atlantic, and with the US, now through NORAD, on a whole ocean approach and basis - not as a coastal matter.

 

[Prairie canuck]

With a focus on the arctic are we not long overdue to obtain some oceanographic and hydrographic survey ships to map the Arctic Ocean? An updated version on the Vard-9-05/ VARD 9 105
The original 2 built for the Royal Navy were also capable of mine hunting / countermeasures.

 

[KevinB]

What are the continental defence missions? The US seems to think that Corvette level armed USCG are appropriate. This frees up the CSC to do expeditionary operations in the hot zones.

We also have CSC type armaments on a number of USCG ships.
New CG cutters are apparently also going to look more like an AB as they will be Aegis enabled.

 

[Kirkhill]

We also have CSC type armaments on a number of USCG ships.
New CG cutters are apparently also going to look more like an AB as they will be Aegis enabled.

The Mariner, like the Ranger before it, is a 205 feet long Overlord unmanned surface vessel, outfitted with next-gen command and control systems, autonomous navigation, and a virtualised Aegis Combat System.

Leidos secures $95m contract to manage Overlord and medium USV

Leidos wins $95m Navy contract for management of Overlord & Medium USVs, marking a significant step in naval warfare's autonomous future.

www.naval-technology.com

Is Aegis a requirement of the Co-Operative Engagement Capability?

CEC - Cooperative Engagement Capability

Other USN CEC nodes

VESSEL REVIEW | Mariner & Ranger – US Navy launches new fleet of unmanned test vessels

The US Navy has begun operating two unmanned surface vehicles (USVs) as part of a US Department of Defense (DOD) project entailing the integration of autonomous

www.bairdmaritime.com

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Army's New Unmanned Missile Launcher Could Target Ships And Air Defenses

A slick Army video presentation on its experimental Autonomous Multi-Domain Launcher also reveals new details about its future missile plans.

www.thedrive.com

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All of which leads to this

China’s Taiwan invasion: Battle for the Strait will be a colossal missile duel

Ukraine has shown that a navy without ships can still rule the sea

www.telegraph.co.uk

Coastal Defence missions?

 

[Spencer100]

We also have CSC type armaments on a number of USCG ships.
New CG cutters are apparently also going to look more like an AB as they will be Aegis enabled.

That's is going a little a far on the cutters.

Yes they will have some of data management side. They don't have the sensors (ie SPY-6 or in the case of the CSC the SPY-7)

Plus the USCG does not have any missile systems now like they did for a time in the eighties.

Legend-class cutter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same gun (57mm and Phalanx) as the current Halifax class.

 

[Kirkhill]

Connectivity

“We fundamentally believe that the greatest victory requires no war, which is why deterrence technology like AI pilots for defense are so crucial. We are racing to put up swarms of highly intelligent aircraft to deter the next conflict and this new capital accelerates our efforts,” said Brandon Tseng, Shield AI’s cofounder, president, and former Navy SEAL.

CDR Team V-Bat

Team V-BAT Offers Tactical UAS Solution for Royal Canadian Navy ISTAR | Unmanned Systems Technology

Team V-BAT has announced the collaboration of three technical organizations each providing specialized and experienced capabilities to enable a very...

www.unmannedsystemstechnology.com

V-BAT - Shield AI

From securing borders, hunting drugs, to finding threats. Shield AI’s V-BAT is the future of next-generation UAS.

shield.ai

Newsroom - Shield AI

Welcome to Shield AI's Newsroom a place where we report news related to us and our industry, our awards, and our press releases.

shield.ai

Hivemind - Shield AI

Similar to a human pilot, Hivemind reads and reacts to the battlefield, and does not require GPS, way-points, or comms to make decisions.

shield.ai

CEC - Cooperative Engagement Capability

Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) is a real-time sensor netting system that enables high quality situational awareness and integrated fire control capability.

www.navy.mil

But

Theyâre âall differentâ: Air Force adviser says services diverge on JADC2

“I’ve looked at all of the documentation associated with all three,” she said, referencing Project Convergence, Project Overmatch and the Advanced Battle Management System.

www.defensenews.com

I did find this fascinating though

Shield AI and Kratos Team up to Integrate AI Pilot on Valkyrie XQ-58

The purpose of the APFIT pilot program is to expeditiously transition technologies and get them in the warfighters’ hands.

shield.ai

The CSC as "aircraft carrier"?

 

[KevinB]

That's is going a little a far on the cutters.

Yes they will have some of data management side. They don't have the sensors (ie SPY-6 or in the case of the CSC the SPY-7)

Plus the USCG does not have any missile systems now like they did for a time in the eighties.

Legend-class cutter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same gun (57mm and Phalanx) as the current Halifax class.

Apparently they are going back to missiles.
The next Gen. Will have Aegis.

 

[Underway]

Is Aegis a requirement of the Co-Operative Engagement Capability?

No. CEC is a concept. How its implemented is different depending on the software. Its like saying "Do I need Word to do word processing".

Apparently they are going back to missiles.
The next Gen. Will have Aegis.

Aegis as currently constructed will break the Coast Guard. Might as well just make them USN after that point.

 

[TacticalTea]

What are the continental defence missions? The US seems to think that Corvette level armed USCG are appropriate. This frees up the CSC to do expeditionary operations in the hot zones.

We can't really compare with the US. We have neither the means or motive to maintain a force comparable to the USCG. At any rate, you can always slap two M134s on an Orca and give its crew some shoulder-launched weaponry.

As such, we must be much more deliberate in our appropriation of naval resources.

As @Oldgateboatdriver describes, continental defense can be viewed through a whole-ocean approach. Deployed CSCs contribute to that. I wouldn't put much stock in the "Coastal" defense plan as he described it because that is, at most, an inshore patrol plan for constabulary purposes, given the greatest armament there were the MCDV's two M2HBs, about as capable as a single frontline humvee.

Proper coastal defense relies on fixed sonar assets, like SOSUS/IUSS, and batteries such as land-based harpoons and VLASMs such as @GR66 brought up.

As such, even a ship designed to defend the home continent should be a capable blue water warship. Otherwise you're relying, again, on deployed CSCs and ABs. Which, to be frank, could very well be our mission during a war in the Pacific, akin to our role in the Battle of the Atlantic.

 

[KevinB]

Aegis as currently constructed will break the Coast Guard. Might as well just make them USN after that point.

TBH I almost choked on my tongue when the CG started talking about Aegis cutters for their next design. think that reality will see it downgraded to more of a CUAS, or an ability to accept Aegis targeting data into missile equipped cutters.
I don't know enough about naval systems to fully understand the manpower and training complications from this - but given comments here, and the fact the USN thinks it's a bridge to far for their current training system - not to mention budget (I looked at what that adds to a build, plus missiles and training -- wow)

 

[Spencer100]

Apparently they are going back to missiles.
The next Gen. Will have Aegis.

As they are just finishing the Legend class build, I have not seen anything like Missiles and Aegis for their replacement. Plus their replacements are decades away. The Legend class itself was not a very high finalist having the FREMM win for the USN, now that ship will be a smaller AB.

The USGC building program will be focused on the smaller Heritage Class.....I don't think you're getting SPY-6 up on that.

Heritage-class cutter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[KevinB]

As they are just finishing the Legend class build, I have not seen anything like Missiles and Aegis for their replacement. Plus their replacements are decades away. The Legend class itself was not a very high finalist having the FREMM win for the USN, now that ship will be a smaller AB.

The USGC building program will be focused on the smaller Heritage Class.....I don't think you're getting SPY-6 up on that.

Heritage-class cutter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I gathered it would be the replacement for the Legend class NSC's which of the 11th (and last of the class) hasn't even been delivered yet.
As I don't think you could install a SPY-6/7 on the NSC - without a major rework
Given how long the HEC's lasted in service the NSC replacement won't be in the water till 2060-70.

 

[Kirkhill]

Uncrewed Vessels and the Digital Ocean » Wavell Room

Uncrewed Vessels and the Digital Ocean - Emma Salisbury, from the Edge of Defence Editing team, updates you on Maritime technology advances

wavellroom.com

Some of the referenced systems, to my mind, have more in common with buoys and lightships - they add to Situational Awareness.

Navy's Task Force 59 reaches full operational capability as it works to build a 'digital ocean' of connected assets

Task Force 59 is developing a vast integrated network of sensors to enable a clearer picture of what's happening in the critical waterways it operates in.

defensescoop.com

Photo essay: onboard the XV Patrick Blackett | Navy Lookout

www.navylookout.com

This is the crew of the XV Patrick Blackett. Crew of 5. And the RN still isn't trusted to put to sea without a Marine on board.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

It’s the RN, you got to have a bugler on-board.

 

[KevinB]

It’s the RN, you got to have a bugler on-board.

or was that burglar?

 

[quadrapiper]

Is a specialized mine-warfare vessel (MCDV, e.g.) still useful, and would whatever capabilities make such a vessel now be incompatible with a "corvette" of some kind?

 

[Rainbow1910]

Is a specialized mine-warfare vessel (MCDV, e.g.) still useful, and would whatever capabilities make such a vessel now be incompatible with a "corvette" of some kind?

Modern/future minesweepers have transitioned away from mechanical minesweeping and towards an unmanned mothership concept. These new minesweepers are going to be standing off from afar and being used as a platform to deploy various unmanned disposal systems into a dangerous mine filled area as I understand it. On paper, you can do this with any ship that has sufficient onloading/offloading equipment, command space and cargo space to hold the various unmanned aerial, surface and sub-surface vehicles.

You could likely make a dual purpose OPV/mine warfare ship but putting all of this excess equipment and space onto a proper modern "Corvette" (aka an actual small combatant) would likely be a losing proposition.

 

[Rainbow1910]

The joint Dutch/Belgian mine warfare vessel project is an excellent example of a modern/future mine sweeper.

 

[Stoker]

Modern/future minesweepers have transitioned away from mechanical minesweeping and towards an unmanned mothership concept. These new minesweepers are going to be standing off from afar and being used as a platform to deploy various unmanned disposal systems into a dangerous mine filled area as I understand it. On paper, you can do this with any ship that has sufficient onloading/offloading equipment, command space and cargo space to hold the various unmanned aerial, surface and sub-surface vehicles.

You could likely make a dual purpose OPV/mine warfare ship but putting all of this excess equipment and space onto a proper modern "Corvette" (aka an actual small combatant) would likely be a losing proposition.

Yes that is what the Kingston Class is doing currently on Op Reassurance. They are using REMUS AUV and soon will have SEAFOX. Any MCDV replacement will be a larger vessel that will have those capabilities.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You could likely make a dual purpose OPV/mine warfare ship but putting all of this excess equipment and space onto a proper modern "Corvette" (aka an actual small combatant) would likely be a losing proposition.

Actually, in the UK, that is exactly what BMT proposed to the RN a few years ago with their Venari 85 mine warfare mother ship that was a hybrid offshore patrol/MCM vessel. BMT introduces Venari 85 – candidate for future Royal Navy mine warfare vessel? | Navy Lookout

Since those mother ships are in the 2000-3000 tons range and 80 to 95 meters in length and are not meant to actually enter the danger area, you can easily optimize a hull form/power plant that can do both 20-24 Kts as a high speed range for the patrol role and Dynamic Positioning for the mother ship role.