Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Rainbow1910]

https://archive.is/20240131202448/https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2024/01/31/navy-wont-send-ships-in-annual-west-africa-deployment-amid-readiness-woes/409766/

Recent article from the Hills Times reports that there will be no MCDV deployment to West Africa in 2024 due to changing priorities within the fleet. Relevant snippets below:

Since 2017, the Canadian Navy has deployed two-Kingston class coastal defence vessels annually to West Africa as part of Operation Projection—an ongoing forward presence mission which includes Canada’s participation in a multinational maritime exercise. The only year Canadian ships didn’t participate in the deployment was in 2021 due to COVID-19 impacts.

Department of National Defence (DND) spokesperson Andrée-Anne Poulin confirmed to The Hill Times that Canada isn’t planning to send ships to West Africa in 2024.

“These platforms are required to train our next generation of sailors. As part of the Canadian Armed Forces Reconstitution efforts, force regeneration is a priority for the Royal Canadian Navy. The two Kingston-class ships will remain in Halifax, which allows a rotation of sailors to go to sea for short periods of time to learn practices and work with equipment,” Poulin said, adding that “reconstitution”—work to address the Armed Forces' personnel shortfall—was “the key reason behind this decision.”

The spokesperson added that the “core crews of the ships would have been able to deploy if directed,” but noted the priority is to train the next generation of sailors to be able to expand the number who can deploy on future missions.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I like how now it's reconstitution, vice right after reconstitution was announced the GoC announced an increase to ops tempo, then a budget cut (on top of denying request for additional funds). Completely coincidentally that ran things into the ground faster then it might have otherwise.

 

[GK .Dundas]

I got a suggestion lay up as many vessels as necessary in order to allow ships to be fully manned ..
Oh wait ! That would make the brass , senior civil servants and this countries political leadership look bad. Not necessarily in that order.
Which as I recall is what happened the last time they tried this some years back .

 

[Maxman1]

I like how now it's reconstitution, vice right after reconstitution was announced the GoC announced an increase to ops tempo, then a budget cut (on top of denying request for additional funds). Completely coincidentally that ran things into the ground faster then it might have otherwise.

As The Critical Drinker puts it, "Nah, it'll be fine."

 

[Stoker]

I got a suggestion lay up as many vessels as necessary in order to allow ships to be fully manned ..
Oh wait ! That would make the brass , senior civil servants and this countries political leadership look bad. Not necessarily in that order.
Which as I recall is what happened the last time they tried this some years back .

We have three Kingston Class essentially laid up out west now because of lack of crews.

 

[Stoker]

https://archive.is/20240131202448/https://www.hilltimes.com/story/2024/01/31/navy-wont-send-ships-in-annual-west-africa-deployment-amid-readiness-woes/409766/

Recent article from the Hills Times reports that there will be no MCDV deployment to West Africa in 2024 due to changing priorities within the fleet. Relevant snippets below:

The OP Projection deployments were more about showing the flag to West Africa and lots of community events. The Kingston Class do not operate very well in that extreme heat and support is difficult if they require a MRP. We also support Op Reassurance now and that is the priority. Its just as well as the Kingston Class do not have all the agreements in place for in support contractors from Thales and that's affecting things.

 

[Furniture]

The Kingston Class do not operate very well in that extreme heat

That's what happens when the navy is still planning to fight U-boats in 1942... Despite the fact we do 80%+ of our deployments in tropical climates.

Also why we have no tropical uniform, but have a lovely black heat magnet we can wear in the Med and Indian Ocean.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That's what happens when the navy is still planning to fight U-boats in 1942... Despite the fact we do 80%+ of our deployments in tropical climates.

Also why we have no tropical uniform, but have a lovely black heat magnet we can wear in the Med and Indian Ocean.

Don’t you know that it is impossible to know the weather in a particular part of the globe, ahead of time?

 

[Stoker]

That's what happens when the navy is still planning to fight U-boats in 1942... Despite the fact we do 80%+ of our deployments in tropical climates.

Also why we have no tropical uniform, but have a lovely black heat magnet we can wear in the Med and Indian Ocean.

The ship was designed to go to Florida on occasion not Africa. Anything with extreme heat, the AC plant is taxed and being an all electric ship with aging systems that's been running for over 20 years with no updates heat affects them in surprising ways. Couple that with problems getting parts sent to the ships or contractors to repair things over there its difficult.

Actually when I deployed over there we were allowed to wear dry fit t shirts and shorts when not on watch.

 

[dimsum]

That's what happens when the navy is still planning to fight U-boats in 1942... Despite the fact we do 80%+ of our deployments in tropical climates.

Also why we have no tropical uniform, but have a lovely black heat magnet we can wear in the Med and Indian Ocean.

That sounds like an UOR, or SOCD, to me.

 

[Maxman1]

Also why we have no tropical uniform, but have a lovely black heat magnet we can wear in the Med and Indian Ocean.

There's the high collar whites.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Some years I came across an RN officer's tropical uniform it was made of white linen and both the shirt and trousers were perhaps the lightest set of clothing. I've ever seen.
It dated from the late 1940's.

 

[Furniture]

There's the high collar whites.

That we don't get issued.

 

[dimsum]

That we don't get issued.

But the short sleeve whites are.

 

[Furniture]

But the short sleeve whites are.

As are socks, t-shirts, and floater jackets... none of which are the topic raised by @Maxman1

More to my earlier point, dress uniforms aren't operational uniforms. It's akin to someone pointing out that the RCAF has leather jackets when someone complains that there aren't enough suitable flight suits in the system.

Toy your earlier point, nobody in C Navy is unaware of the problems with black uniforms in hot environments. It's clearly not a priority, so a UCR or SOCD is not going to fix it. Systems like that are designed to fix issues not obvious to the bosses... Anyone that has worn NCDs, or 3B during an Ottawa summer knows black sucks in the heat.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There is a light weight NECU coming.

 

[Navy_Pete]

As are socks, t-shirts, and floater jackets... none of which are the topic raised by @Maxman1

More to my earlier point, dress uniforms aren't operational uniforms. It's akin to someone pointing out that the RCAF has leather jackets when someone complains that there aren't enough suitable flight suits in the system.

Toy your earlier point, nobody in C Navy is unaware of the problems with black uniforms in hot environments. It's clearly not a priority, so a UCR or SOCD is not going to fix it. Systems like that are designed to fix issues not obvious to the bosses... Anyone that has worn NCDs, or 3B during an Ottawa summer knows black sucks in the heat.

There are lightweight FR coveralls available off the shelf, I don't know why we mess around with making our own stuff. Easy enough to doff the top part, tie the arms around your waist to contain it, and wear a t shirt if you are somewhere you don't need long sleeves, or have a button or something to quickly pull up the pants into shorts.

Lots of good reasons to have pants and long sleeves on an industrial platform, but easy enough to relax that when you are not in machinery spaces or whatever, as long as it's quick to revert for emergency/action stations.

 

[FSTO]

There are lightweight FR coveralls available off the shelf, I don't know why we mess around with making our own stuff. Easy enough to doff the top part, tie the arms around your waist to contain it, and wear a t shirt if you are somewhere you don't need long sleeves, or have a button or something to quickly pull up the pants into shorts.

Lots of good reasons to have pants and long sleeves on an industrial platform, but easy enough to relax that when you are not in machinery spaces or whatever, as long as it's quick to revert for emergency/action stations.

The coverall debate. Almost as never ending as hands in the pockets.

 

[Navy_Pete]

The coverall debate. Almost as never ending as hands in the pockets.

I still can't believe the hang up was sailors not being able to figure out how to keep them off the ground when using the heads; I've worked with some incredibly stupid people on construction sites and other industrial sites before joining the CAF while wearing coveralls and they all managed.

 

[dimsum]

There are lightweight FR coveralls available off the shelf, I don't know why we mess around with making our own stuff. Easy enough to doff the top part, tie the arms around your waist to contain it, and wear a t shirt if you are somewhere you don't need long sleeves, or have a button or something to quickly pull up the pants into shorts.

Lots of good reasons to have pants and long sleeves on an industrial platform, but easy enough to relax that when you are not in machinery spaces or whatever, as long as it's quick to revert for emergency/action stations.

I wear both one-piece and two-piece flight suits. Honestly, the time difference is negligible if you don’t have to tuck in the 2-piece top.

I believe the current NECU top is zipper opening anyway.