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Massive tsunami kills 150,000+ in Asia

This is a truly horrible incident. It is a shame that our government is busy trying to pass the buck...

However, could this be an aftershock from the earthquake that happened near Tasmania? (8.1??) http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,11777911%5E662,00.html
And where would a person be able to donate? Has any bank or other institution set up an assistance fund? Or just Red Cross?

I think that even though we are on the otherside of the world we still should be focusing on how to help.

Joe.
 
I think the main reason we aren't send DART is becuase we have no practical way of getting them there (uninformed opinon).

however I'm thinking that sending DART isn't 100% necessary and in fact would not be a responsible use of money.  Sounds harsh i know, but let me finish.  If we send DART that will help only one part of the affected area.  It would probably cost us at least 20 million, the last mission DART did was in Turkey back in '99 and CBC reported that the total cost was approximately 15 million.  now if we send DART it will most likely be in the field far longer than the Turkey mission therefore it would cost that much more. 
Wouldn't it be more affective to send that 20 or so million in direct aid to the NGOs on the ground and the countries affected.

Now lets just wait and see if Ottawa ponies up the 20 million....

And if you want to donate you can do it through several NGOs.
www.redcross.ca
www.msf.ca
www.oxfam.ca
those are just off the top of my head.



 
Not to get into a spitting match, but I just stroked a cheque for 100 bucks too.

Way to go, Wes.  Sheerin, thank you for the sites for the donations!!!



Its Christmas and what is the right thing to do?

(Sorry to sound "preachy")

Joe.
 
For some reasons, I still believe the DART's $20M would still be more beneficiary than if given to NGOs for relief use.  Not to downplay the NGOs work, (far from my intent), but I believe that we, as a military organisation, would be able to get things going much faster.  In this case, time is of the essence.  People don't have food or clean water to drink; corpses are rotting in the street. 

The last experience that I have seen with the Red Cross (once again, I believe they do a terrific job but...) was with the Ice storm in Quebec.  The Red Cross had had Millions upon millions of $ donated for immediate use, and yet, it took months before that money was distributed, if it actually ever got completelly spent for that purpose.

Also, think about the political aspect of things.  Sending a "military" contingent somewhere always give a nice warm feeling to our allies.  In another hand, it also comes down to use it or loose it attitude.  Tax payers might be thinking "what is the point in having this asset if it is never used?".

I understand one of the issues is how the DART would get there.  I heard it was like 26 Herc chalks to bring it all there, and I don't think this is going to happen that way.  That would take an awful long time to bring everything out there.

Anyone member of the DART in the forum?  Can anyone give more details about the DART (unless classified?) as to what / who is part of it.  What is the response time, etc...
 
You may find some of your answers here:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/24351.0.html

GW
 
Rusty Old Joint said:
According to one of this morning's papers there were (I think) 11 Op ATHENA people on leave in Thailand - probably in Phuket - and three (I think, again) were not yet (last night?) accounted for.
As of this morning, all pers from the task force that were in the affected area have been accounted for & are well.
 
MCG said:
As of this morning, all pers from the task force that were in the affected area have been accounted for & are well.

Thanks, MCG, at least a few people have good news ... I'm still having some difficulty coming to grips with the scale of the thing.
 
It's good for us at the lower levels to send money, I mean there is very little else we as private citizens can do.
But I think if we look at what countries are sending in terms of Dollars we are missing out, as PBI pointed out the French put little money (can we confirm that Wes?) but sent a load of medical supplies, people etc. to actually do the work.
It's at a point where we (talking on the government level now) could throw money at it and say "look we gave them billions, now lets have a pat on the head."
Or, send people, supplies, food, materials, medicine instead.
I believe the second to be a much better response to immediate problems such as contamination etc.

So when we see a government sending some insane amount of money at the problem, you have to look a little deeper and see what else they're doing.
I think if we throw money at the disaster the people who need it most, those suffering obviously, will see little of it, and little of it's effects, but what they will see are medical clinics being set up, real medicine and medical workers which their own country can't provide due to the destruction...even if they did get a big cheque.

Perhaps stating the obvious, but I've noticed we're thinking in monetary terms which in developing countries or areas hit by disaster, mean very little.
Can't eat a dollar, and you can't buy food from a store that doesn't exist with it either or purchase medical supplies from an nonexistent place or pay a non-existent doctor to stitch up your leg with it.

Also, good to hear about the Canadians that made it safe, but there still 3(?) dead and 18 un accounted for sadly.
 
Rusty Old Joint said:
... I'm still having some difficulty coming to grips with the scale of the thing.

Me too!

Here its just after 0800 on Thu 30 Dec, and the BC is now over 80,000!

Thats 20,000 more than all the Canadians killed in the 4 yrs+ of WW1, almost twice the amount of Canadians killed in WW2, twice as many Australians Killed in WW2, more Americans killed in the entire Viet Nam War, all in a matter of how long it takes to drown! Thats hard to comprehend.

With a population of just 19,000,000 people (that which Canada had in 1970) the Australian government has sent $35 million Aussie dollars, and this may still increase. A total of 5 RAAF C130s ferrying supplies to the region.  

Australian citizens are also donating millions of dollars to organisations assiting in disaster relief.

In Aceh (Indonesia), the waves went as far as 15km inland!

The ADF will establish a field hospital there.

Regards,


Wes


EDIT: As of 1700K30Dec04 (AEST) the RAN will deploy the HMAS Kanimbla (LPA-51) tomorrow (from Garden Island, Sydney). She'll be enroute to the distaster area. This RAN ship will have onboard personnel, vehicles, eqpt, medical supplies, and rotary winged aircraft to assist in various taskings assigned.
 
I must say I am impressed by the response of the US in this disaster.  They have already made an initial commitment of 35 million, and are also forwarding ships and resources to the area, including vessels capable of producing thousands of gallons of clean drinking water.  Canada is still only committing 4 million and our DART team is not being deployed.  Part of the problem with the deployment of such a resource is that it needs to be self-sufficient and Canada does not fund its military sufficiently to deploy forces and support them independent of other countries providing transport and supplies. If we want to play, we'll have to pay.
The confirmed count is now over 80,000 killed and I would expect that we could see this toll go as high as 200,000.  It is a terrible disaster and should be a lesson to Canada as we look at our own west coast.  With such a major geological event on the Pacific Rim, I would expect that there could well be other major shifts soon, some of them much closer to home.  Our own emergency preparedness for such an event needs to be re-examined, including planning to provide adequate military resources.
 
 
As of this afternoon Ottawa is pledging 40 million dollars and we're sending another CC-150 full of supplies. 

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/12/29/dart-tsunami041229.html
 
There is now, according to President Bush, a four nation coordinating team (Australia, India, Japan and the USA).   The twelve member, Canadian inter-departmental reconnaissance team could, probably, do more, better work in Washington than in Bangkok, Colombo or Jakarta.

It appears, from what I heard/read today that India is leading the relief efforts â “ taking care of its own and deploying relief/medical people and supplies to harder hit countries.   (Acting like a leading regional power in its own region ...   China, on the other hand, is still trying to figure out what to do â “ Peoples' Daily lists what other Asian nations â “ including Australia and New Zealand - are doing to help but is silent on Chinese efforts.   The government is, I think, having trouble deciding what to do, with whom to cooperate, etc ... its relations with most of the victim countries are 'cordial' to 'frosty,' there are many disputes over islands and potential undersea oilfields.)
 
In the Globe and Mail on line
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20041229.wxtsunami-dart29/BNStory/National/

Critics question Canada's reluctance to dispatch disaster-response unit


By GLORIA GALLOWAY
From Wednesday's Globe and Mail  E-mail this Article 
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Ottawa â ” Federal officials say a Canadian disaster-response unit launched with much fanfare in 1996 is not being deployed in the early days of the tsunami crisis because its field hospital and water-purification unit are not the relief tools required at this time.

Critics worry that cuts to the military have made it financially impossible to move the Canadian Forces Disaster Response Team, known as DART, to the areas levelled by the giant waves. It takes 24 lumbering Hercules airplanes to transport it out of the country and cost the government $15-million the last time it was dispatched.

But representatives of the departments of National Defence and Foreign Affairs, as well as the Canadian International Development Agency, said yesterday that finances and logistics are not keeping the unit grounded.

Deploying DART â Å“very much has to be driven by the needs that have been identified in a given crisis situation based on what our partners on the ground are telling us,â ? said Elissa Golberg, a director of humanitarian affairs in the Foreign Affairs Department.

Water purification is the major requirement in regions hardest hit, and Ms. Golberg said Canada has responded by sending water-purification tablets and other components on a plane that left for Sri Lanka yesterday afternoon.

DART, which involves more than 200 military personnel from medics to security officers to field engineers, is not generally used during the first 72 hours of a crisis, she said. It was not sent to Haiti earlier this year when a hurricane killed more than a thousand people and has only been deployed on rare occasions.

â Å“It's more of a medium-term intervention,â ? Ms. Golberg said. â Å“The DART is not off the table. It's an important part of our tool kit. But we need to make sure that it is the kind of tool that is needed to respond to this particular circumstance.â ?

Colonel Guy Laroche acknowledged that there are not enough Hercules available to get DART to a country like Sri Lanka, but said there are other methods of transport that could be used, including commercial aircraft.

Ms. Golberg added that the government has been discussing ways to better mobilize the operation, including breaking it up so that, for example, the water-purification unit could be deployed on its own.

Ministerial officials denied that Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew and International Development Minister Aileen Carroll being out of the country for holidays has affected Canada's response. Both ministers have been in regular contact with their departments and officials overseas even if they have not been available to talk with the media, they said.

A spokeswoman for Defence Minister Bill Graham said DART would not be used without a request from one of the countries hit by the disaster or one of the aid agencies working in the region.

â Å“This is the biggest catastrophe in years,â ? said Isabelle Savard. â Å“On the other hand, we're not just going to put people on the plane without knowing where they are going to go and what they are supposed to do.â ?

But Ted Menzies, the Conservative critic for CIDA, said he was concerned the unit was being kept at home for financial reasons.

â Å“I have to wonder, have we cut our military so badly, does DART even exist any more?â ? he asked. â Å“I hope that they're there because, if we were ever going to put this team into action, now is the time.â ?

He also questioned whether there could be any doubt that a field hospital and a water purification unit would be valuable in areas hit by tsunamis.

â Å“We've seen enough news clips on television to know there is a disaster â ” probably the largest natural disaster that we have ever seen and hopefully ever will see in our lifetime,â ? Mr. Menzies said.

â Å“We're going to sit back and wait for a request to come and help? That's ridiculous.â ?

In fact, Ms. Golberg said, the government of Sri Lanka has said it believes it has enough medical professionals to deal with the crisis and the situation in other countries such as Indonesia has not been fully assessed.

â Å“We never want Canada to be in a situation where it just deploys a tool because we have it. We have to make sure that the kind of things that Canada provides is going to meet the needs of the victims.â ?

So is it Political or are we waiting for the Recce? Of course I would not like to see the DART going into the wrong place but my fear is that they will find any excuse not to deploy the team because we do not have the lift! What a sorry excuse for a 1st world nation we are!

I would like to see both the DART and 1 Can Fd Hosp deployed. Oh wait the later is only equiptment and paper.
What a perfect time for the PRL to crank up and get the ball rolling. Just MHO.

GF
 
Canada increases tsunami aid to $40 million
CTV.ca News Staff

Canada is increasing the amount of money it is sending to the victims of the tsunami disaster in south Asia, and deploying a team to determine whether the military's crack response team will follow."Today we are announcing an increase in our financial contribution to $40 million to provide immediate emergency relief as the situation evolves," Graham told reporters, reading a statement from Prime Minister Paul Martin.

"This includes the $4 million in financial assistance already committed."

In addition, Graham said a planeload of emergency supplies is being flown to Indonesia and Canadian consular staff levels are being increased "where needed... for as long as necessary."

The minister then said a "multidisciplinary reconnaissance team of about a dozen officials from Canadian Forces Disaster Assistance Response Team, the DART, Foreign Affairs and CIDA is being sent to the region to make recommendations on additional Canadian assistance, including the possible deployment of the DART."Since Sunday's magnitude-9.0 quake sent devastating tsunamis sweeping across south Asia, Ottawa has faced criticism for not immediately deploying the crack mobile medical unit known as DART.

Answering those critics, Graham told reporters the 200-member DART isn't something that can, or should, be sent on a moment's notice.

"We just can't get to an airport with 200 people and say, 'Here we are,' without knowing where we're going," Graham said in French.

Therefore, the minister explained, the advance team is being sent to determine where the team is needed, and how best it might be used.
"This is an issue we look at in terms of whether it's appropriate, whether countries need it and whether or not it's worth moving it," he said.

Col. Guy Laroche of the Department of National Defence told a media briefing that for now, DART isn't needed and hadn't been requested.

"It seems the DART is not the right tool at this time,'' he said.

But Graham said Wednesday the government is still open to the possibility of sending some, if not all of the crack response team.

"The purpose of the reconnaissance team that is going tomorrow is to look whether perhaps some parts of the DART would be useful in the countries concerned."

During the briefing's question-and-answer period, the defence minister was also forced to defend the pace of his government's reaction to the disaster.

Although Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew and International Co-operation Minister Aileen Carroll are now cutting short their vacations to return to Ottawa, reporters demanded to know why it's taken them more than three days to do so.

In response, Graham insisted the ministers concerned, as well as holidaying Prime Minister Martin, have been working with their staff.

"This has been going on, and the ministers involved have been in touch with their departments," he said, adding,"But now they've decided to be sur place and I think that's a good decision on their part."

Graham's announcement is just the lastest in a growing number of pledges to the disaster-stricken region, where the number of dead is feared to exceed 100,000.


-

Seems like our governement as not forgotten the DART's presence...
 
Aussies are digging deep, the Australian Rd Cross alone (there are many more agencies for disaster relief here) has raised over $14,000,000.00AUD for this disaster. Try www.redcross.org.au and see whats happening from this end.

If you read this, why not donate yourself to a fund of your choice.

Regards,

Wes
 
I hope Canada does more, though we matched the US in financial contributions, I believe we could do much, much more.
On Monday me and my dad are flying to Vietnam/Thailand to bring over about 4 tonnes of supplies being donated by the Vietnamese-Canadian community in Vancouver.
If one cultural-community can pull that off, I believe the government should be able to do more. And a thumbs up to B.C. for providing an extra $8million to the Canadian Red Cross for the disaster relief in south Asia.
As of 1am PST, the number of dead in the disaster zone has neared 80,000 and still rising.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1104324207445_7/?hub=TopStories link also gives individual countries hit hard by the tsunami.


Dan
 
Che said:
It's good for us at the lower levels to send money, I mean there is very little else we as private citizens can do.
...
Or, send people, supplies, food, materials, medicine instead.
I believe the second to be a much better response to immediate problems such as contamination etc.

From the perspective of working in civilian emergency management, "convergence" is one of the problems after any incident - people rush to the scene, trying to help, but often only get in the way.

To use a military analogy:  If a neighbouring defensive position is under attack, rushing to their location isn't always the best way to help them.  Sometimes it's better to help them by taking the pressure off by outflanking the attackers (okay, the waves have come and gone, but now the threat is disease), or simply by sending more ammo to the force in place (or in this case relief supplies, or money to buy relief supplies closer to home rather than WASTING money shipping it from the other side of the world ...).

As Che also pointed out, "you send what you can" (i.e. the French sending "stuff", becasue they can ... whereas we can't - we simply don't have the strategic airlift ... unless we charter ... or commandeer ... hmmm ... )

This is a huge disaster - responding to it in the same way we'd respond to a multi-vehicle highway accident simply won't cut the mustard ... this has to be a deliberate campaign, vice a hasty attack.
 
Death toll has been raised to 114,000 dead confirmed.  Also there was a 5.7 Aftershock, causing tsunami warning alarms to go off,  no more then small waves washed up on shore.

Ontario donated 5million$ from its own pocket ontop of Canadas 40million$ now.

full story can be found here: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1104413335904_41/?hub=TopStories
 
As some have pointed out that donating money individually to NGOs may be the most effective method of helping those people, here's a list of some NGO's that are assisting the tsunami victims:

I found this story on CTVs website

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1104255862681_99665062
Choosing how to send aid to south Asia
CTV.ca News Staff

Though Canadians may be compelled to give generously to the south Asian tsunami relief effort, some have concerns the money might not get to the right place.

"We want people to people to be comfortable," says Tanya Elliott of the Canadian Red Cross. "We don't people to hold back because of these concerns."

So how do you know the agency you're giving money to is legitimate? There are a few guidelines to follow, according to Elliott:

ensure you're giving to a registered Canadian charity
get a tax receipt
do some research
The fastest, easiest way to check if a group is registered is to look on the Canada Revenue Agency website

There are about 1,800 charities registered in Canada. Some are large, some are small, and it requires research to see what each group's focus is.

For instance, World Accord is a small international development agency based in Waterloo, Ont. With existing partners in India and Sri Lanka, it is now working to send aid overseas.

"Our administration fees are much lower than some groups, because we partner with local organizations," says World Accord's Sandy Heathers. "To pay a Canadian to be in another country costs much more than to pay a salary for a local person to do the work."

Each group has its own way of operating, but Elliott says contributing online is the "quickest, most efficient, cost-effective way to donate. We can issue an instant tax receipt and there are fewer hands involved."

For those worried their money will go toward a charity's overhead, Elliott says the Red Cross channels its funds directly to its people on the ground.

"We know it's being used to purchase supplies and provide the help that's needed in the affected regions," she says.

Elliott said no matter which charity you decide on, money is the best way to give. Sending goods is "very costly, and almost impossible in terms of distribution."

She says financial donations are used in "direct financial transactions" where the charity's agents "purchase supplies that are culturally appropriate and are meeting the need at that particular time."

Elliott says it's difficult to convey to Canadians exactly how their money will be spent right now. "It's difficult in the early stages of a disaster," she says. "They're focused on immediate relief. That's the focus."

Canadian non-governmental organizations:

Canadian Red Cross 1-800-418-1111
CARE Canada 1-800-267-5232
UNICEF Canada 1-877-955-3111
Oxfam Canada 1-800-466-9326
Doctors Without Borders 1-800-982-7903 or 416-964-0619

Faith and community groups

Canadian Catholic Organization for Development and Peace 1-888-664-3387
Canadian Tamil Congress 1-416-751-8777
Canadian Relief Organization for Peace in Sri Lanka 1-416-429-2822
Christian Children's Fund of Canada at 1-800-263-5437
UJA Federation of Greater Toronto at 416-631-5705
Salvation Army Canada 1-800-725-2769
World Accord 519-747-2215 locally or 800-525-3545
World Vision 1-800-268-5528
 
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