Medal for Domestic Operation?
- Thread starter John Nayduk
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I was DAGged RED for Op PEREGRINE - wanted to go, not for tin, but I have friends who live and work in some of the hardest hit areas. Would have been nice to lend a helping hand. Oh well.
While at home, I designed an Op PEREGRINE medal, ribbon of black, scarlet and yellow (smoke, heat, fire), and on the gong a crossed shovel and fire broom.
I submitted it to my WO, but I don't think she put it any further up the chain of command. Good thing she got the joke, eh?
tlm.
While at home, I designed an Op PEREGRINE medal, ribbon of black, scarlet and yellow (smoke, heat, fire), and on the gong a crossed shovel and fire broom.
I submitted it to my WO, but I don't think she put it any further up the chain of command. Good thing she got the joke, eh?
tlm.
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Before things get out of hand, let's not start giving medals for proper field sanitation just yet. Some domestic operations were more war-like than some foreign ops. So, let's get rid of thinking that if an op happens in Canada, then it's not a mission. As well, the CPSM is not just given out for UN missions: it was also given for IFOR/SFOR in Bosnia (a NATO mission).
Take the example of Op SALON. It was an operation that involved an entire Canadian Mechanised Brigade Group deployed on an operation with Air Force assets supporting (Tac Hel, Airphoto services, etc). It lasted more than a month and involved a hell of a lot more than supporting other agencies (such as non-military operations as putting out forest fires or building dykes, etc). To use current terminology, it was a "block 2" war edging close to "block 1". For those of you confused, Block 2 is a sort of mission seen today in Afghanistan or last year in Haiti: armed intervention to a failed or failing state in order to restore stability. Block 1 is warfighting: guns and bullets flying, etc.
So, no medal for Op SALON, but going to Cyprus the next year (when all 20 of my rounds never left my magazine pouch) got me the CPSM and the UNFICYP medal. Geesh, in SALON I had some 150 rounds on me (30 loaded on my rifle), stood on crate upon crate of .50 ammo in the track and we rehearsed our role for SALON in Gagetown by attacking up to and including combat team level. Certainly sounds more "meritorious" in service than watching topless women on the beaches in Ayia Napa a year later!!!!!!!
But that's just my $0.02 worth, and I smoke, so therefore evil.
>
Take the example of Op SALON. It was an operation that involved an entire Canadian Mechanised Brigade Group deployed on an operation with Air Force assets supporting (Tac Hel, Airphoto services, etc). It lasted more than a month and involved a hell of a lot more than supporting other agencies (such as non-military operations as putting out forest fires or building dykes, etc). To use current terminology, it was a "block 2" war edging close to "block 1". For those of you confused, Block 2 is a sort of mission seen today in Afghanistan or last year in Haiti: armed intervention to a failed or failing state in order to restore stability. Block 1 is warfighting: guns and bullets flying, etc.
So, no medal for Op SALON, but going to Cyprus the next year (when all 20 of my rounds never left my magazine pouch) got me the CPSM and the UNFICYP medal. Geesh, in SALON I had some 150 rounds on me (30 loaded on my rifle), stood on crate upon crate of .50 ammo in the track and we rehearsed our role for SALON in Gagetown by attacking up to and including combat team level. Certainly sounds more "meritorious" in service than watching topless women on the beaches in Ayia Napa a year later!!!!!!!
But that's just my $0.02 worth, and I smoke, so therefore evil.
>
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Unfortunately, none of these are listed in the proposal. The ones listed are all humanitarian assistance ops, not ALEA or ACP.
That is my point: why should we be getting medals for helping the Canadian civilian emergency services to do their jobs, which is the esssence of a humanitarian assistance op? Individual commendations to put on the wall, or certainly the appropriate decorations for those who display true bravery during a dom op, but not a "thanks for coming out" medal. It bespeaks a search for things to stick on our chests.
Cheers
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Police, Fireman etc recieve a medal after 20yrs service, they are Exemplary Service medals.The exception is the RCMP.They have their own 20 year medal.
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pbi said:
Ironic, isn't it? (i.e. due to political correctness, certain Dom Ops will be swept under the carpet ... )
It certainly seems contrary to the principles of honours and awards:
QR&O 18
(e) equitability - non-recognition of this factor could produce the negative effect of dissatisfaction rather than improve morale since, if an honour is bestowed for duty under certain circumstances, similar kinds of duty and circumstances should also be rewarded; and
(f) credibility - this factor is related to respect since, to be credible, an honour must represent a worthy endeavour and it must not represent routine duty.
pbi said:
I guess the reason I disagree with your logic is this: If somebody does something that is NOT their job, then I view that as being "unusual", perhaps even "exceptional". And, in the following example, when somebody does something that they're not specifically trained or equipped to do ... "above and beyond the call of duty".
I'm very sorry, but as respectfully said before, I'm afraid we're stuck agreeing to disagree.
If they want to recognise Dom Ops, then a bar that says "Canada" on the SSM would be a fair compromise (i.e. no additional medal, yet recognition for something "special" ...).
'Tried my best'
RESCUE RECALLED AS BURNED MOM, BABY CLING TO LIFE
By Rob Lamberti, Toronto Sun, April 15, 2005
A MOTHER and her 1-year-old son are fighting for their lives in hospital after four men braved intense flames and choking smoke to rescue them from their burning apartment early yesterday. "I love that little boy," said Stanley Anglin, 40, a tenant of the Rutherford Ave. building near Weston Rd. and Jane St.
"I tried my best. I didn't want that little boy to die."
Anglin, two Toronto cops and a firefighter pulled the victims, each suffering from extensive burns, out of a second-floor apartment engulfed in flames.
The child suffered second- and third-degree burns to his torso and face and was rushed to Hospital for Sick Children. His mom, 26, was taken to Sunnybrook with burns to about 75% of her body.
BEGAN IN BEDROOM
Their injuries are considered life-threatening.
Late yesterday an investigator from the the Ontario fire marshal's office began sifting through what little remained of the home to figure out how the inferno began. The alarm came in at 12:27 a.m.
Toronto Fire divisional commander Bob O'Hallarn said the two-alarm blaze might have started in a bedroom.
Anglin said he was shaving in his apartment when he smelled smoke shortly after midnight. He went upstairs and pushed open the door to the woman's apartment.
As the door opened, he was engulfed in smoke and threatened by flames but was able to find the woman, identified only as Tia, "on fire."
"I grabbed her and pulled her out," said Anglin, adding he had her sit on the landing of a staircase.
"She was still on fire so I went and got my extinguisher (and doused her)," he said.
"From there, I tried to go back to the boy, but the fire and the smoke got so hot," said Anglin, who suffered minor smoke inhalation. "I was freaking out. I was thinking there were more kids because I saw earlier there were other kids there playing."
It was then that Toronto Police Const. Anthony Als and Sgt. Larry Zimmerman arrived.
Anglin said he yelled at Zimmerman that the boy was still inside.
"That's when I decided to go in," Zimmerman said.
The veteran officer said he crawled along the floor in a bid to reach the child.
"There was this much air at the bottom" by the floor, said Zimmerman, holding his hands 15 cm apart.
"I got in. I think the first room was the kitchen," he recalled. "I couldn't really tell with all the smoke. I got through that room and through the other door, which was totally engulfed.
"I couldn't get any further than that," he said.
Zimmerman backed out and lifted Tia -- who was bloodied and nearly naked from flames burning her clothing -- onto his back and carried her to safety. Toronto firefighter Darryl Viscount then ran in and felt his way through the darkness to the injured boy and carried him out.
"It's sad," Zimmerman said. "I wish I could have gotten in there."
As the drama unfolded on the second floor, neighbours from across the street rushed over to knock on doors to alert sleeping tenants in five other apartments. But even they were forced back by the heat and smoke until the first fire crews arrived minutes later.
M
MG34
Guest
Situations like given above are not cause for a medal,a commendation yes but not a medal.A medal for domestic ops,give me a break that is just idiotic,what is next? A star for going on a bde Ex in Wainwright,with retroactive bars for every RV you attended??
Just as a follow on, after fighting the fires in Penticton, BC in '94, everyone to my knowledge had a letter of Appreciation from the BC Government put on their Pers. file.(Well at least i know there is one on mine, ive seen it there.) Seems adequate to me, i think im leaning towards what bossi eluded to with the SSM, just put up a bar with the Dom Op name on it ie a bar with Operation ASSISTANCE .
Of course they (DND Hierarchy) will have to reword the criteria for eligibility of the SSM.
[edit]Seems like a good way to assuage the people out there that are just looking for a medal grab...[/edit]
Of course they (DND Hierarchy) will have to reword the criteria for eligibility of the SSM.
[edit]Seems like a good way to assuage the people out there that are just looking for a medal grab...[/edit]
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...and that could be the icebreaker to start a conversation with someone, .."so, where did you get yours from?"
E
ex royal now flyer
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vonGarvin said:Take the example of Op SALON. It was an operation that involved an entire Canadian Mechanised Brigade Group deployed on an operation with Air Force assets supporting (Tac Hel, Airphoto services, etc). It lasted more than a month and involved a heck of a lot more than supporting other agencies (such as non-military operations as putting out forest fires or building dykes, etc). To use current terminology, it was a "block 2" war edging close to "block 1". For those of you confused, Block 2 is a sort of mission seen today in Afghanistan or last year in Haiti: armed intervention to a failed or failing state in order to restore stability. Block 1 is warfighting: guns and bullets flying, etc.
So, no medal for Op SALON, but going to Cyprus the next year (when all 20 of my rounds never left my magazine pouch) got me the CPSM and the UNFICYP medal. Geesh, in SALON I had some 150 rounds on me (30 loaded on my rifle), stood on crate upon crate of .50 ammo in the track and we rehearsed our role for SALON in Gagetown by attacking up to and including combat team level. Certainly sounds more "meritorious" in service than watching topless women on the beaches in Ayia Napa a year later!!!!!!!
>
vonGarvin,
Good points. As one who was there with you, I concur with your statement regarding Op Salon. Yes, we were armed, shots were fired, and injuries sustained - I do not remember the fellows name but talk to the soldier who ended up with a 10 inch screwdriver thrust into the back of his flak vest. Who knows what would have happened if he was not wearing a flak vest.
As for the medal, I would accept something for Op Salon - even a letter of appreciation would have been nice. However, I believe that the criteria for the SSm is a joke. Let's see, taking a posting to Germany, a few months up north in Alert, or deploying with DART for 30 days, seems difficult to me. Op Salon will never qualify because of the political sensitivity of the situation. It makes the government feel good about sending humanitarian assistance where needed - either domestic or international - and awarding, with a medal, those who helped the government look good in the international community. However, the government will not admit to internal problems and having to send in the CF to help clean up what three levels of government screwed up. So, for Op Salon no medal.
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I forget the fella's name as well. Some guys still have scars from that Op. Buy, you're right: No medal for Salon for a bazillion reasons. That's ok. When we retire, we'll form the "Oka Veterans' Group" (a new age version of the Great War Veteran's Association, aka Royal Canadian Legion), we'll implement our own medals, have "Oka Day" and even have Lasagna for our traditional meal ;D
the 48th regulator
Army.ca Fixture
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freaking priceless
heheh...
dileas
tess
E
ex royal now flyer
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Lets not forgot about having a golf tournament.
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marshall sl said:
Those are long service medals, and that's not really what we're talking about. Do firefighters get a medal for every multiple alarm call they go to, or for every life they save? Do cops get a medal for every nasty armed shytebird they lock up, or every dangerous situation they defuse? No-of course not. So-why should we get medals for coming along and helping out, IAW Canadian practices for humanitarian Dom Ops, almost always in a second response or general support capacity, once the civvies are fully engaged. Our reward for these things should be the thanks of fellow Canadians, which in my experience in Dom Ops, we usually receive in spades and often in a very moving and genuine manner. As for medals for operations in Canada against our own Canadian citizens, I am not so sure we really want to wear medals for that, unless we are fighting a civil war in which case all bets are off anyway.
I think we need to restrain this desire to be sticking things all over ourselves, particularly for ops in Canada. I agree with the poster who warned about "exercise medals"-this is not as funny as it sounds-the Red Army wore them, for example for their Summer Lightning annual exercise series. Some stuff you just don't get badges for, and we shouldn't be going around looking for them.
Mark: IMHO this is a level playing field: if you want to go on "automatic fire", please don't feel restrained. I'm quite capable of separating comments you make on this board from the conversations you and I have at other times. Rank does not automatically equate to "better argument" on this site: only logic and experience do that, neither of which are tied to any rank, and both of which I know you have in great supply.
Cheers.
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