Medcat and Promotion Thread- Merged

[Cansky]

First of all I would like to say that I do not think that I am entitled to a promotion. All I am asking here is other people opinions on the matter. Also I loved the fact that the last 2 poster are assuming/infering  that I feel like i am entitled.

All I am saying is that it's been done in the past and now. I actually see the messages everyday !

Also I was loaded on my 5 but taken off it without my knowledge or consent even thought my MELs did not limit my ability to attend in anyway .

When you are a category the T6 is only the time limiting factor.  The other numbers are also extremely important.  So I you are G4T6 O4T6. (Since your previous post only stated T6 I'm using these numbers as an example.) That would preclued you going away from where ever you are and taking any career courses.  As this example is showing  need for regular follow up and usually the medical officer will indicate that you shouldn't leave the area of where you are recieving your medical care.  This ensures that you get some form of continuous care.  Your career shop loads you on the course and you chain of command can have you removed if you are on category.  You do not need to be informed at all of this.

 

[MaxO]

I understand what you are saying, but when I say that none of my MELs limit my ability to take the course i actually mean that there is no MEDICAL reason for me not to be able to take the course.

UFS/UFA
FIT FULL DUTIES ASHORE

those are my mels now the course is given accross the street from where I work so I am pretty sure i can attend, althought there is a portion in Halifax but like i said my MELs are pretty clear, unless the course is given on the boat which it is not i am fully fit to take it.

On another note, I am not asking to be the one making the decision I am only asking to be keep inform and that the non concurence have a valid reasoning. I do not blame the CO for making the decision base on the information provided, I blame the people feeding him erroneous information !

 

[armyvern]

You seem to think that I am an OS or something, that the feeling I have in the way you are talking to me, but  i guess even if i was it wouldn't change anything.

They way I always handle buissiness in the forces and the way I always was delt with is that the member affected always has is say before any decsision is made and that is because CoC doesn't always know the whole story (even more true when on medical) only the members knows therefore should at least be told that his unit is planning on sending a NON-CONCURENCE messages. Nobody like to learn from somebody else that they were loaded on a course but that they are not anymore. EVERYBODY DESERVE AN EXPLAINATION when it come to a mbr's own career.

All yours

And to you,

Here's how it is Bucakroo:

Two weeks ago careers sent an email asking if certain pers in our outfit were "available and eligible" to attend a QL5s which starts this month. "Available" meaning "not on leave, deployed, compassionate, on another course etc". "Eligible" meaning "medically fit (NOT on TCat OR PCat) and QL4s qual'd."

The response: 2 available, 1 not available due to TCat. Period.

Response goes back to Careers. THEN they cut a course loading message, minus the name of the pers who was NOT available due to that TCat. Simply put, member was NEVER course loaded. Even had careers course loaded them onto a message, the member was INELIGIBLE for the course due to the TCat. No foul there. Member does NOT need to be informed, nor do I need their damn permission etc. They are NOT eligible. That's the way it works.

Now, IAW regulations -- the ONLY person who has the authority to remove a member who IS course loaded is the Commanding Officer (note: this does not say member, or even that the member has to be informed), and the Commanding Officer will do so if/when the member is NOT eligible for that course IAW directives.

Last time I checked, no CO had to ask a members permission prior to sending a non-concurance message. You may think that's not fair -- and you can whine all you want about it. But, the fact of the matter is ... "If you are on a Cat -- you are NOT eligible to attend a career course." This should NOT have to be explained to each individual as it is a known FACT of service.

I'd rather suspect that COs have much better things to be doing with their time than by having you grace their presence so that they can tell you "you aren't going on course because the rules say you can't -- hope this doesn't hurt your feelings any", especially when those rules are out there --- and already known.

The COs actions are justified by regulations and they do not need your consent (because you may "feel bad" or think it's "only fair") to enforce those regulations.

 

[armyvern]

...

those are my mels now the course is given accross the street from where I work so I am pretty sure i can attend, althought there is a portion in Halifax but like i said my MELs are pretty clear, unless the course is given on the boat which it is not i am fully fit to take it.

On another note, I am not asking to be the one making the decision I am only asking to be keep inform and that the non concurence have a valid reasoning. I do not blame the CO for making the decision base on the information provided, I blame the people feeding him erroneous information !

This is a career course/promotion. TCat makes you ineligible by regulation. Period (I'm quite sure you are NOT pregnant which COULD be treated differently as expalined below) -- regardless of MELs. Period. That is valid. it is justified. There's no one feeding anyone erroneous information -- it just happens to be information that you don't personally like ... that though does not change the facts of the matter -- you are on TCat and that fact affects your promotion and career course eligibility. It is really that simple.

 

[MaxO]

PM me and i ll sent you the exact memo done by my boss to actually get the non concurrence from the CO.

Then maybe you can make the judgement call to say it was justified !

 

[armyvern]

PM me and i ll sent you the exact memo done by my boss to actually get the non concurrence from the CO.

Then maybe you can make the judgement call to say it was justified !

You're on a TCat (YOU already said that and therefore BY REGULATION YOU are NOT eligible) -- it's justified whther YOU like it or not. Pretty easy call to make.

 

[MaxO]

Make you happy


AYE AYE ! SKIPPER !


AR

 

[armyvern]

Make you happy


AYE AYE ! SKIPPER !


AR

Now, that makes sense ...  :

 

[Gunner98]

It should be some consolation to you to know:

When/if your TCat is lifted and your supervisors deem you eligible for promotion, your promotion date can be back-dated to your original date of eligibility and you may receive pay back to that original date.

 

[MaxO]

Was aware of that but thanks anyway.

I guess I should of went at sea before joinning the navy then I would of know that I can't sail !!!

LOL  ;D

 

[armyvern]

I guess I should of went at sea before joinning the navy then I would of know that I can't sail !!!

Hmmm, sounds like this could turn into a PCat in the making perhaps ...

 

[Starlight31]

Sounds like O4T6 which should go straight to PCAT (After 2nd TCAT unless waived).  Unfit Trade is common for (if I am reading between the lines correctly).  So, not knowing your history at all, Med re-muster? or med release? Stay away from Medic.. lol.. It would suck if your first posting was to a ship!!.

D Med Pol will determin your PCAT (Most likely O3 UFS/UFA.)  Then to D Mil C, and then they let you know what happens to you.  If your UFS/UFA and this is going a PCAT route, then the CoC has every right not to send you on your 5's, as it will serve the Navy no purpose, and to waste that type of money on you, would not be in the best interest of the Navy, or the CF at this moment. 

Be ready for a MEL to look like something like 1 1 2 2 3 5 (Unless you have glasses, CV issues etc?)

Good luck!!

 

[combatbuddha]

I'm in something of the same boat. I've scoured the references and asked the pros.
I have found through discussion with the medical staff and careers that you can be promoted while on PCat, as long as MELs placed on you by the MRB do not restrict your employment. The needs and requirements of the CF come first.
In addition I was advises that if you are on a TCat for something that, in the opinion of the medical staff, will be resolved satisfactorally in short order, the CO on thier advice can decide upon arrival of the promotion instruction to promote you. A hypothetical situation for this would be during recovery and rehab after surgery where the prognosis indicates that the member will be returned to full duties. This means that there has to be a good, effective communication channel between you, your chain of command and the medical staff. Additionally it may mean that we may have to get involved and not let the dice of fate roll against our favour.
I know that this is a contradiction of the Rules and Regulations, but I guess times are changing faster than they can type the new rules out.
If you are merited for promotion and you are under restrictions that will not allow the promotion to be granted immediately, the promotion will be held for you, but will be deferred and back dated. After a year you lose your place and start over.
While your file is being review by a MRB, no promotion til they come to a decision. A P Cat pending can take up to 9 months in some case to be resolved.
Again, this is third hand.
Eyewitnesses are not reliable and you should do your own research through credible sources.

 

[Angry_Johnny]

best of luck.

I find I am on my own in this matter (I am going through this as well).

I just stick to the CDU, case Co-ord if I have questions. 

That would be my advice to ANYONE going through this type of Med Cat situation, I THINK.

I was deployed, while on T-cat....merited...then told I could not be promoted.

This happened although I was not employed within my restrictions, and was infact employed as PER NORMAL...but could not get promoted, because I was on T-cat (this was my first time on any cat, and I thought they "expired" after 6 months....yeah yeah...I know I know...lol).

Hmmmm.....wonder if I could redress the fact that my old unit never employed me as per my restrictions, and that I want my promotion....that would go well I bet...ha ha ha.

I give up....just waiting on the word, to find out how my release is GOING to happen.  At this point, DMED POL could write me up good to go, no restrictions...and I'd put my 6 months in the next day, and I know someone out there is going to ask why I haven't just put it in yet....I might want out, but I am not RETARDED...medical release...non-med release....easy answer!!

not a whine, just a wish for good luck in dealing with something I have dealt with, and am done fighting.

 

[Starlight31]

best of luck.

I find I am on my own in this matter (I am going through this as well).

I just stick to the CDU, case Co-ord if I have questions. 

That would be my advice to ANYONE going through this type of Med Cat situation, I THINK.

I was deployed, while on T-cat....merited...then told I could not be promoted.

This happened although I was not employed within my restrictions, and was infact employed as PER NORMAL...but could not get promoted, because I was on T-cat (this was my first time on any cat, and I thought they "expired" after 6 months....yeah yeah...I know I know...lol).

Hmmmm.....wonder if I could redress the fact that my old unit never employed me as per my restrictions, and that I want my promotion....that would go well I bet...ha ha ha.

I give up....just waiting on the word, to find out how my release is GOING to happen.  At this point, DMED POL could write me up good to go, no restrictions...and I'd put my 6 months in the next day, and I know someone out there is going to ask why I haven't just put it in yet....I might want out, but I am not RETARDED...medical release...non-med release....easy answer!!

not a whine, just a wish for good luck in dealing with something I have dealt with, and am done fighting.

You bring up interesting points here... First... Lets all understand that TCAT's are not a be all and end all.  The are a tool that we use to afford the mbr, and CoC time to heal.  We give a time frame of 3-6 months for a number of reasons.  This only after other options have been used up (Light duties, etc). If a mbr is able to heal before the time frame exp's... outstanding, they come in, and then we remove them. After the 6 months the mbr comes back in for TCAT review (Mbr responsibility), and if no change in condition, and or more time is needed, another 6 months is given.  If a mbr does not come in after their 6 months, the TCAT is still in EFFECT!!!!, along with any and all limitations.  Now a 3rd and final TCAT (6 month) can be given, but it would have to be for cases that have been due to delays in surgery dates etc and our approve at higher medical HQ, and or PCAT time with D MED POL, DMCARM, D MIL C, etc...

Yes you can still deploy on TCAT, this is very common in field units.  Their are many spots in CQ, SQ, HQ, RQ, etc.  Yes, I know that these are busy on deployment, long hours, and hard work. But you as the mbr have the choice at the end of the day if you wanted to go (if it was above your MEL).  If you give an inch, the green beast will want a mile...  We give mbr's  Employment limitations, though at the end of the day..... these are only a recommendation to the CO.  Also unfit uneven ground does not mean no KP duty, and sh** jobs that some crafty people came come up with.  If I state "No prolong standing, > 15 min.  No drill, No parade, No ruck march, No run, No BFT, No inpact sports.  Next day mbr comes in at around 1200, in big pain!!! I thought I covered everything on the chit!!! I forgot no TAC VEST!!! or back then Webbing march, and as it was veiwed as training.... not PT...

Now lastly, Yes med release is a nice thing.... I am clueless on your situation.  What poison's me sadly, is the attitude.  I am sure some is justified, but the "if I don't get it, I am out anyways"  thinking drives me mad.  I don't blame you, it is the system.  We seem to train everyone that way, from as long as I can remember... "stay in at least past %@ years get a med release".   Bothers me, that this is still the thought.  I have troops that think the same way, that I try to work on.. I feel that we, have a ways to go..

Good luck Johnny...  WRT to CDU ensure that you research the advise given.  Things change, and they sometimes only know old stuff.. I.E  (if you get hurt overseas your out.... CDS is only guy.. )  just make sure....   

 

[Angry_Johnny]

Now lastly, Yes med release is a nice thing.... I am clueless on your situation.  What poison's me sadly, is the attitude.  I am sure some is justified, but the "if I don't get it, I am out anyways"  thinking drives me mad.  I don't blame you, it is the system.  We seem to train everyone that way, from as long as I can remember... "stay in at least past %@ years get a med release".   Bothers me, that this is still the thought.  I have troops that think the same way, that I try to work on.. I feel that we, have a ways to go..


You don't blame me, that is GOOD!!  You have no clue about my situation, let alone my ATTITUDE in dealing with it....so yeah , YOU SHOULDN'T BLAME me...you have no clue!!

You use quotes to state my attitude, yet I never come even close to saying these words you write:  "if I don't get it, I am out anyways" - thinking

Perhaps I did not make myself clear....my meaning is that if they decide I am totally good to go, or if they PCAT me, I AM RELEASING.  The only reason I am still WAITING OUT is:

No, I am not going to sign a waiver, just to make a point; and have my condition worsen, and make my everyday worsen, and worsen as I age...THAT WOULD BE STUPID.  I have tossed the idea around in my head several times...and you know what, pleasing my EGO..and making a point...will not help me to protect possible care for injuries sustained while in the CF!!

I am not trying to be rude here, just clearing up that MY ATTITUDE is not that of a "stay in X amount of years, and get a pension" - or "give me a medical release or I am out"...think I would have been working for that way before my thirteenth year hit....if that was my way.

stay safe....I'll just stay angry!!

Johnny