• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Mental health training for CF primary care providers

flatlander13

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
In light of tragic recent events and hearing about the limitation in available resources, I'm curious to know what, if any, training is given to primary health care practitioners to deal with mental health concerns specific to the CF (ie. NO, PhO, PTO, MO, DO, etc.) ? As a soon-to-be professional, I wonder if there are resources/training in place so that individuals having difficulties might be identified before they fall through the cracks? Unfortunately, I suspect my university education will not prepare me to care for all aspects of a member's health...  :yellow:

 

the 48th regulator

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
0
Points
410
Learn about trauma, and how the human handles it.

After that it is OJT, and absorb, and learn, so that the next person gains from your knowledge.

dileas

tess
 

CombatDoc

Full Member
Reaction score
2
Points
0
flatlander13 said:
In light of tragic recent events and hearing about the limitation in available resources, I'm curious to know what, if any, training is given to primary health care practitioners to deal with mental health concerns specific to the CF (ie. NO, PhO, PTO, MO, DO, etc.) ? As a soon-to-be professional, I wonder if there are resources/training in place so that individuals having difficulties might be identified before they fall through the cracks? Unfortunately, I suspect my university education will not prepare me to care for all aspects of a member's health...  :yellow:
When you say you are a soon-to-be professional, what do you mean? 

In answer to your question, yes,  primary care practitioners who deal with mental health on a regular basis are trained within their respective scopes of practice e.g. Medical Officers, Nursing Officers, Physician Assistant. Dental Officers and Physiotherapy Officers - no.
 

Armymedic

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
0
Points
0
There is no excuse for serving members to chose suicide over seeking help and assistance from thier peers or the medical system.

It is thier selfish choice to chose the route of taking thier own life over continuing thier struggle, and asking for the help to overcome it.
 

Fishbone Jones

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
856
Points
1,060
Rider Pride said:
There is no excuse for serving members to chose suicide over seeking help and assistance from thier peers or the medical system.

It is thier selfish choice to chose the route of taking thier own life over continuing thier struggle, and asking for the help to overcome it.

When your done with that crystal ball, how about putting it to some use.
 

Armymedic

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
0
Points
0
During the CF Physcian Assistant program, we do 3 weeks didactic with oral and written exams on caring for psychiatric conditions, plus a four week psych rotation during phase 2.

 

Yrys

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
410
Rider Pride said:
During the CF Physcian Assistant program, we do 3 weeks didactic with oral and written exams on caring for psychiatric conditions, plus a four week psych rotation during phase 2.

That migth need to have some ajustements on the infos provided...
 

Armymedic

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Yrys said:
That migth need to have some ajustements on the infos provided...

In what specific way do you feel my training be improved? What more do you expect the medical system do when a patient deceives and/or lies to the clinician asking the direct questions.

I move a reply from a different thread here, as I feel it is more appropriate in this discussion.

recceguy said:
When your done with that crystal ball, how about putting it to some use.

It's on the table, right next to the the magic wand. You know, the magic wand everyone wants medical clinicians to have so we can instantly cure the sick of whatever it is that ails them.

Every death is tragic. But I, and too many of my friends and colleagues can not, despite our best efforts, stop a determined person from doing what they chose to do to themselves.

There are two ideals that must becomes ingrained in our military culture:
1. Mental illness and injury is just like any other illness and injury; you will recover, but you might never be exactly like you were before and,
2. Suicide, as a cure for what is making you ill or injured, is a unacceptable course of action for those in the Canadian Forces.



 

Armymedic

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Recceguy,

My thoughts are identical to Lt Mellish's high-lighted above.

Not derail this thread more, my response can be found here:

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/113209/post-1274886.html#msg1274886

 

Fishbone Jones

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
856
Points
1,060
Rider Pride said:
Recceguy,

My thoughts are identical to Lt Mellish's high-lighted above.

Not derail this thread more, my response can be found here:

http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/113209/post-1274886.html#msg1274886

Sorry if I misunderstood.

I thought you intimated some sort of ability to see into the minds of anyone with a mental problem and diagnose it from a journalist's article.
 

Yrys

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
410
Rider Pride said:
There is no excuse for serving members to chose suicide over seeking help and assistance from thier peers or the medical system.

It is thier selfish choice to chose the route of taking thier own life over continuing thier struggle, and asking for the help to overcome it.

If someone has a broken legs, you would order him to go on foot see his doctor, would you ?

Those persons are sicks . When you're sick you do what you can,
not what you should. 

Who would ask help from someone with your kinds of opinions ?

 

flatlander13

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
CombatDoc said:
When you say you are a soon-to-be professional, what do you mean? 

In answer to your question, yes,  primary care practitioners who deal with mental health on a regular basis are trained within their respective scopes of practice e.g. Medical Officers, Nursing Officers, Physician Assistant. Dental Officers and Physiotherapy Officers - no.

Sorry, I should have been detailed in my question. I am in my last year of an MPT program and an under the SEELM physio plan. I recognize that training to some extend happens within an educational program, however I was more curious as to whether or not specific training is given to CF health care providers. Like tess had mentioned, I realize many skills needed to deal with CF specific mental health will be acquired on the job
 

flatlander13

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Rider Pride said:
There are two ideals that must becomes ingrained in our military culture:
1. Mental illness and injury is just like any other illness and injury; you will recover, but you might never be exactly like you were before and,
2. Suicide, as a cure for what is making you ill or injured, is a unacceptable course of action for those in the Canadian Forces.

I find it difficult to understand where you are coming from, but am by no means discounting your opinion. I feel like even if a patient doesn't outright tell me they are having mental health issues, should I not recognize the signs and symptoms and do what I can to intervene? I know it is difficult to help someone who doesn't reach out, but isn't that part of the challenge of being a primary healthcare provider (especially in the CF)? I feel like saying "suicide is an unacceptable course of action" is quite insensitive and those currently struggling may disagree with you, but what do I know... My  :2c: and quite astray from my initial question.
 

medicineman

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
590
Points
1,010
Rider Pride said:
During the CF Physcian Assistant program, we do 3 weeks didactic with oral and written exams on caring for psychiatric conditions, plus a four week psych rotation during phase 2.

IIRC, I got 4 weeks school and on the wards and the psychiatrist was trying to up it to 6 weeks didactic for subsequent courses...went the other direction I see. 

Yrys said:
That migth need to have some ajustements on the infos provided...

Since you haven't a schmick what is taught or learned, bring your neck back in a bit.  Like it or lump it, suicide is actually a very selfish act that is often done without consideration to those around the person that does it, sometimes even deliberately so...take the fellow that shoved a grenade down his frag vest in the back of an APC in Croatia in 1994 - he ended his problems quite decisively, but created a whole pile of others due to the rather inconsiderate way he went about it.  A very good friend of mine is scarred for life from that (literal) mess, as are several other acquaintances and I'm sure a whole pile of others I've never really met.  I have a rather long list of others with an equally long list of people affected by the decision of someone who was at the end of their tether but didn't or couldn't ask for help or were just hell bent on getting back at someone on an impulse.

To the OP, as a PT, you're often able to gauge someone's mood changes and engage with them, as you might be seeing people more frequently than their doc is - and you're in a position to talk directly back to the care provider that something might be amiss.  Also, some of the reasons they're there to see you might be directly related to changes in mood or attitude due to chronicity of injury or likely results of treatment plateau (loss of job, etc).  Your eyes and ears are your best assets...and also the other care providers'.

MM
 

Fishbone Jones

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
856
Points
1,060
This discussion is getting upside down. As are some others on the subject.

No one can see into someone else's mind and see what is wrong, where they are going or why they are doing it.

Let's quit quibbling, laying blame, talking about being selfish, etc. Basically playing the blame game.

If you're going down that road, you're not qualified. Your not a mind reader. You are not in the business of exorcising demons.

Let's quit talking about 'that' end game. Let's quit trying to make people already without hope, in despair and on the edge feel guiltier by calling them selfish and weak. This is not the time for tough love. It's the time for compassion and understanding.

Put your expertise, such as it is, into prevention.

Let's get past all the blaming bullshit and start talking about how to prevent people getting there in the first place.

Let's talk about how to run plays to accomplish the 'new' end game where people learn to cope and end up leading long productive lives.
 

Gronk

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
I agree w/ Yrys, and would ask RP, Who are you to say that these wounded soldiers have "No excuse". Not a very compassionate statement.
 

Gronk

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
And would add,
how do you even know that none of these soldiers has sought help and treatment?
 

cupper

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1
Points
0
recceguy said:
This discussion is getting upside down. As are some others on the subject.

No one can see into someone else's mind and see what is wrong, where they are going or why they are doing it.

Let's quit quibbling, laying blame, talking about being selfish, etc. Basically playing the blame game.

If you're going down that road, you're not qualified. Your not a mind reader. You are not in the business of exorcising demons.

Let's quit talking about 'that' end game. Let's quit trying to make people already without hope, in despair and on the edge feel guiltier by calling them selfish and weak. This is not the time for tough love. It's the time for compassion and understanding.

Put your expertise, such as it is, into prevention.

Let's get past all the blaming bullshit and start talking about how to prevent people getting there in the first place.

Let's talk about how to run plays to accomplish the 'new' end game where people learn to cope and end up leading long productive lives.

:goodpost:
 

flatlander13

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
recceguy said:
Put your expertise, such as it is, into prevention.

Let's get past all the blaming bullshit and start talking about how to prevent people getting there in the first place.

Let's talk about how to run plays to accomplish the 'new' end game where people learn to cope and end up leading long productive lives.

The prevention aspect is exactly where my initial question came from. Since my university education won't properly equip me, I was curious if the CF is training all primary providers (ie. not just MOs, NOs and PAs, but anyone who has contact with members in a healthcare environment) to recognize and intervene when appropriate. As stated earlier, chronic pain, PTSD and depression have all been linked, and therefore, as a PT, it's hard to treat the former without understanding the etiology of the later. I didnt intend for this thread to turn into a debate over suicide. My question has been answered; thanks for the info.
 
Top