Military questions

[Lishy]

Hello. I hope I'm not posting in the wrong place here (Could a moderator please move to the appropriate place if it is?), but I am doing research on the army and military for a story I'm writing, and I was wondering if I could ask a few questions here to make sure I'm accurate?

Firstly, what is the role of a lieutenant and how would you best describe their job and place in the military compared to the other ranks? I've tried to search about this on google, but I still don't feel I've understood enough general information on lieutenants and how they act, or their authority. The best of what I was looking for said this however:

Q: What does a lieutenant do?

A: What ever he is ordered to do.

Lieutenants (along with Ensigns and Lieutenant Junior Grades) in the Navy are typically Division Officers, meaning they are responsible for a unit of men that have a particular function. They may be a Department head, responsible for several divisions.

They may even be in command of a very small ship or boat, or even a set of boats. The last Commanding Officer of the US Navy's last Asheville class Patrol Gunboat was a Lieutenant.

So basically, a Lieutenant is a sub-division commanding a unit of men? I know this is going to sound vague, but is there any way I could possibly learn more just generally all about lieutenants? To clarify, what I mean is what information should I know to make sure if I illustrate such a character, it is respectful and accurate to the actual position?

Also, how exactly does a mission work? I know this is vague too, so I'll try to detail it: Basically, how does the order of operations and interactions work with the higher ups all the way down to the lower ranks in initiating a mission and fulfilling it? The general idea I know of is that a commander-like figure usually issues commands and then army men go out and do that mission, but I would like to know the technicalities. In connection to my first question, say we have said lieutenant character on a mission. How would such a mission be passed to the character by the higher ups, and how would the army go about to fulfill it and act upon it?

Lastly, could anyone recommend me any further readings? Articles? Books? Websites? I think that it would be justified to study the general and overall structure of the military as well to make sure whatever I write is just and proper in these regards since I want to be as respectful as possible with how I portray any characters I am writing with. So I would love to learn more just in general about the military and army.

Hope I didn't accidentally break any rules here. And I thank any who took the courtesy to answer any questions. This aspiring writer here really wants to make sure he gets his information correct and educated with all this. And who knows? Maybe in the future I would even join out of so much interest

 

[FastEddy]

Hello. I hope I'm not posting in the wrong place here (Could a moderator please move to the appropriate place if it is?), but I am doing research on the army and military for a story I'm writing, and I was wondering if I could ask a few questions here to make sure I'm accurate?

How they act, that's easy most of them think they are God's gift to the Military and know more than Senior NCO's. :


Cheers.

 

[MARS]

Lishy,

Welcome to milnet.ca

If you don't mind, can you elaborate a little more on the story you are writing, who it is for (are you a journalist, for example?) and how it will be used?

I think the membership here might be a little relcutant to answer without a few more details.

Best of luck and welcome to the site.

MARS
milnet.ca mentor 

 

[Lishy]

Lishy,

Welcome to milnet.ca

If you don't mind, can you elaborate a little more on the story you are writing, who it is for (are you a journalist, for example?) and how it will be used?

I think the membership here might be a little relcutant to answer without a few more details.

Best of luck and welcome to the site.

MARS
milnet.ca mentor

Thanks for the welcomes. I'll admit, at first I was a bit nervous coming here..

I'm no one special. Just a typical teenager. The story I'm writing is actually for a visual novel/rpg hybrid video game I dream to someday complete and release on the internet. I'm actually incredibly passionate about writing for it and I want to make sure the storyline is perfect those special people important to my life.

There is a reason I've came to this forum though, and I will explain that.

You see, one of the major differences of developing a video game plot from that of a novel is that often times you aren't just stringing together a series of events, but expanding to create a world and all its rules.  Because of this, you have to do a lot of research even for something of the fantasy genre. Whether it'd be the different forms of governments, the ecosystems of the world, and basic psychology of a human being. It must be researched. Of course, while this might seem to be a far-fetched project for a teenager to handle, I don't think it's any more ridiculous than the 15 year old boy who built his own nuclear fusion reactor. Within the internet lies an information database so large, even the Library of Congress cannot compete! And you know, I just so happen to be passionate about this as well and must perfect the plot.

So you see, in this state of affairs, wanting to learn more about the military by asking first hand to you guys isn't a bad idea, no? Especially if it is merely for educational purposes?

With that said, I'm no journalist or anything, but just a stupid teenager no different than those you see on Rpg maker websites. Only thing is that I'm very serious about this hobby of mine. It'll be unrealistic to say I want to make the project so grand to even gain Tetsuya Takahashi's attention. But if I can't, I want the internet to at least enjoy it as much as I have fun making this. That's my only wish to come out of this. I want to share this tale that has been kept inside me to be enjoyed amongst everyone. Simply to bring to life a story people will enjoy and learn from.


Anyways, since there seems to be a rule about self promotion, so I'm going to choose my words carefully with this:
The way I would best describe this story without spoiling it is.. The struggle to take our flaws, and better ourselves. It is a story about how far we've come from the past, yet how distant we are from achieving peace, and that we must keep fighting for a better future.



Sorry for my wall of text here, but you can see my passion for this just from how much time I put into this post, and I would really like to learn more about the military for this.

 

[Loachman]

Your basic question is far too vague to answer without knowing much, much more.

Your Lieutenant definition, for example, pertains to a Naval Lieutenant - and Lieutenant, in the Navy, is the equivalent of an Army Captain. A Naval Captain is the equivalent of an Army Colonel. In a flying unit, a Lieutenant is a line Pilot, with no command responsibility. There may or may not be a Logistics or Aircraft Maintenance Officer holding that rank as well, but most would be Captains. In an Army unit, a Lieutenant is usually a Platoon (or equivalent, ie Armoured troop) Commander.

You are going to have to be much more specific, and you are probably going to need a proofreader from whichever branch about which you are writing.

Now - depending upon how far you wish to take your research - you could always join a Reserve unit and experience some of this for real (with little commitment). You'd still need input from others most likely, but it would give yo much better understanding.

 

[SeanNewman]

Lishy,

The quick and dirty for the rank of Lt is that you first must understand the general rank structure and how it fits in with how many people each rank leads.  Generally, Ptes and Cpls work their way up to the rank of Sgt (takes ~10-15 years) and tat that point the Sgt may be given the position of a section commander (8-10 troops including himself).  This is the highest formal leadership position a non-officer holds.

Three sections plus a headquarters make up a platoon, which is what a Lt commands and is 30-40 people.  The difference between a Sgt and an Lt is that a Sgt has had to work his way up the ranks, where as the Lt gets his leadership authority by being granted a commissioning scroll.  Instead of the time in the trenches like the Sgt, the Lt would have spent his time in school, as well as a few years going through officer-specific training.

To provide more context, every commander also has a second-in-command as well.  For the Sgt it is filled by a rank between him and a Cpl, and for the Lt it is filled by a Warrant, which is the next NCO rank after Sgt (If the Lt is away or killed, the Warrant takes command of the platoon).

One level higher you have a company, which is made up of a headquarters and three platoons.  The second in command is a captain (rank above Lt) and the commander is a major (rank above captain).  The Sgt Major position that you always see in movies as the old crusty one who looks after discipline and all the soldiers are terrified of is a Master Warrant, which is one NCO rank above Warrant.

As for the mission part of it, what will happen is the battalion commander will make a plan for what to do with his unit, and then issue tasks to each of the companies in order to help him do it.  Then the company commanders will take that task he was assigned and make a plan that uses his platoons to achieve it.  Then the platoon commander will do the same with his sections, and the section commander will do that with his soldiers.

For example, a CO may get the task of searching a small village.  He may task one company as the outer cordon that isolates the village, another to be the inner cordon, and the company we belong to with the actual searching of the buildings.  The Major then might divide up the four buildings and give two to one platoon, two to our platoon, and keep his third platoon un-tasked in reserve in case any unexpected events come up.  In orders when he gives us his plan, he would also tell us the sequence that he wants everything to happen.  Then, we as the Lt take those orders we received and we make our plan with how we will employ the platoon.  After a long planning process, we may settle on a plan that sees one of our sections fixed and providing cover on the first building that the second section will search.  Then when that house is clear they will provide cover on the second building and the third section will clear our second building.  Finally, the Sgt section commander will then take the orders that we gave him and have a plan for the individual soldiers (when we come up to the house, Johnson will have the machingun and Smith and Wilson will be the first team in, with Ray and Bubs going next, etc).

Hopefully this helps you understand a bit of how it all works.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Lishy

Here are some links that I hope will help in your endeavors, but I'm sure will just result in more questions.  ;D However, I'm sure they will give you an idea on the military rank system. I've also included a couple that show the relationship between rank and the relevant command formation because the two go hand-in-hand.  Best of Luck.

U.S. Military Ranks

http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/index.php?showtopic=5835

Military Rank

Canadian Forces ranks and insignia

Military rank

List of comparative military ranks

Military organization

 

[Pusser]

You should also read some books that illustrate military life fairly accurately:

The General Danced at Dawn
MacAusland in the Rough        All three of these are by George MacDonald Fraser and are roughly autobiographical (they're also quite
The Sheikh and the Dustbin    funny

The Cruel Sea              These two are by Nicholas Monsarrat and are also somewhat autobiographical
Three Corvettes

Tunes of Glory        by James Kennaway


You should also understand that the American armed forces operate somewhat differently then the CF.  The Canadians tend to grant more responsibility to lower ranks, but by the same token it takes longer for Canadians to achieve those same ranks.  For example, Canadian Navy lieutenants(N) will often hold as much responsibility as US Navy Lt Commanders.  the rank of lieutenant commander in the US Navy is virtually automatic after the required number of years of service, but in the Canadian Navy it is strictly a merit promotion that some never achieve.  There is absolutely no comparison between a Canadian petty officer (often achieved at 10-15 years service) and a US Navy petty officer (often achieved at 3-5 years service).

 

[pbi]

Lishy: you asked about how a mission works, and how the military process works to devise and issue a mission to a commander.  It's all part of a bigger picture: hopefully no mission ever gets issued that doesn't have a part in contributing to that bigger picture. Here's the 75 cent version.

At the top level, where governments and alliances make the political decisions about why, how and when to use military force ("strategy"), we get a strategic mission statement that provides political and military guidance to the senior officer in command of all operations in a particular geographic area of the world, sometimes called the "theatre of operations".

The theatre commander then decides how and where he will use his military forces to achieve the political and strategic military goals that have been given to him. He develops a plan that identifies what the conditions are that he must achieve (objectives), and what things must look like when it's all done (end state). The plan then lays out all the actions that must be taken to achieve the objectives and the end state. These actions are usually referred to as "operations" and the whole thing is called a "campaign plan".

Below the theatre commander, other senior commanders each have command of a part of the theatre, or of a part of the forces in the theatre. The campaign plan tells each of them what they have to do to achieve the objectives of the campaign plan, or how they have to support others. These commanders in turn develop plans as to how they will use their forces to carry out their part of the plan, while still contributing to the efforts of all the others. Plans made at this level are usually called "operation plans", and are expressed as "operation orders".

At each level of command, it's very important that the commander understand not only what he has to do, but also the intentions of the commander at least one (and often two) above him. This allows commanders to make quick decisions if the plan or the circumstances change suddenly (...which always happens), because they understand the "big picture" they are part of. Every commander also needs to understand what the commanders to his left and right ("flanking forces") are doing, so they can help each other and not interfere. You can see that it's alot more than "just following orders". Mindless obedience is (and almost always has been) fairly useless in effective militaries. Soldiers think.


This process continues in a very similar fashion all the way down from the theatre commander (who could have a million people under his command), down through various levels until we reach that Lieutenant commanding his platoon/troop of about 30 to 40 NCOs and soldiers.  It's complicated in some ways, and very simple in others. It works very well in some forces, and it's a train wreck in others.

Like everything really important, it's ultimately about people.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

 

[BinRat55]

The difference between a Sgt and an Lt is that a Sgt has had to work his way up the ranks, where as the Lt gets his leadership authority by being granted a commissioning scroll.  Instead of the time in the trenches like the Sgt, the Lt would have spent his time in school, as well as a few years going through officer-specific training.

LOL!! Yer too funny!! I was thinking how you were prolly one of them "crusty" guys, or at the very least a Sr NCM... then I looked at your profile... I'm definitely "tongue-in-cheek here, but did you CFR? Or did you just really hate Phase trg? LOL. Funny...

 

[SeanNewman]

I was very briefly an NCM in the Reserves in the mid-90s, but then got out after 18mos and took a long break before rejoining as a Reg Force Officer.

That didn't have anything to do with my above post though; it's just fact.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that 2 years of phase training is easy and having done and instructed both I can comfortably say that officer training is significantly harder (more Confirmation Of Combat Knowledge), but that is hardly equivalent to 15 years of service and probably a few tours.

A degree does not automatically make someone smarter than someone who doesn't have one, but it is still an accomplishment that not everyone can do.

At the end of the day, the platoon commander doesn't need to have more experience than a Sgt though, because he has 3 Sgts and a WO to consult when he needs experience-based data to make his plan.

 

[CorporalMajor]

Firstly, what is the role of a lieutenant and how would you best describe their job and place in the military compared to the other ranks? I've tried to search about this on google, but I still don't feel I've understood enough general information on lieutenants and how they act, or their authority. The best of what I was looking for said this however:So basically, a Lieutenant is a sub-division commanding a unit of men? I know this is going to sound vague, but is there any way I could possibly learn more just generally all about lieutenants? To clarify, what I mean is what information should I know to make sure if I illustrate such a character, it is respectful and accurate to the actual position?

In the Army a Lt is junior officer, qualified in his or her branch.  It is junior to Capt, a rank also used for commanding platoons, although Captains have more experience.. They oversee the work of a platoon (roughly 40 people) and answer to a Major (who commands the comany which the platoon belongs to), who in turn answers to a LCol (batallion commander).

A junior officer plans, organizes, liases, etc  to get things done.  Thier job generally involves less hands-on work and practical experience than Privates and Junior NCOs, but puts a great emphasis on leadership skills and judgement.  In Canada commissioned officers are university-educated. 

junior officers, especially Lts often use Senior NCOs (Sgt, WO, MWO, CWO) to pass down orders, as well as a source of knowledge.  A Lt has extensive training but will not hasve the same experience some WO has (10-20 years), and in turn relies on his Pl WO for guidance.

How do they act?  Depends, different trades have different leadership styles.  Some jobs might leave them more involved with thier junior ranks, some don't. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

junior officers, especially Lts often use Senior NCOs (Sgt, WO, MWO, CWO) to pass down orders, as well as a source of knowledge. 

Only Sgts (and PO2) are Senior NCOs (Non-Commissioned Officers).

WOs, MWO and CWOs are Warrant Officers.

 

[CorporalMajor]

Only Sgts (and PO2) are Senior NCOs (Non-Commissioned Officers).

WOs, MWO and CWOs are Warrant Officers.

Technically, that is correct. 

I have seen WO+ referred to (informally) as SNCOs, and often, a Sgt can hold a WO's position.

But still, you're right. 

 

[aesop081]

you're right.

Fixed.