Montreal PD asks City to prohibit insults

[kratz]

I am sure there are more than enough colourful insults and swearing hurled at LEOs in the course of their duties. This request to Montreal City Council is over the top IMO.

TheStar.com

Ban insults to police, Montreal council urged
'Doughnut eater' slur could prove costly under proposed ban
Jan 27, 2009 04:30 AM

Andy Blatchford
THE CANADIAN PRESS

MONTREAL–Montreal police have asked the city to make it illegal for citizens to hurl insults such as "pig" and "doughnut eater" at officers.

Mayor Gérald Tremblay said yesterday his public security committee is mulling the request by Montreal's police brotherhood to slap offenders with fines.

The union wants Tremblay to make it illegal for the public to fire insults at police, regardless of whether they are profanity-laced.

"It's something that will be addressed – we know that other cities have passed some bylaws considering that subject," said Tremblay, who stressed that the city has not made any concrete decisions about banning indignities directed at police.

Chief-Insp. Paul Chablo, communications director for Montreal's police force, said lawyers from the department and the city are examining the feasibility of such a rule.

"The key factor is ensuring that it becomes a useful tool for the officers involved, but at the same time it doesn't infringe on anybody's rights," he said.

Chablo said several municipalities across Quebec – including Quebec City – have some variation of a law that prohibits citizens from spewing slurs at police officers.

The 28-year veteran of the force said the law could keep police interventions involving violent citizens from getting out of hand.

But while city council digests the demand to prevent civilians from mouthing off at cops, some experts question whether punishing Montrealers for launching jeers infringes on one's right to expression.

"There are an awful lot of words that are borderline and it's highly subjective – it's too vague," said Ronald Sklar, a McGill University law professor.

Sklar said words can be punishable, but they must threaten bodily harm or incite disorder.

Montreal was also expected to pass a motion last night to meet another police request.

The city is considering a bylaw amendment that would prohibit protesters from covering their faces during demonstrations, except in certain situations.

 

[wannabe SF member]

Why not?
It is verbal assaultwe are talking about.
I think a fine would be the proverbial soap on some people's tongues.

 

[midget-boyd91]

Why not?
It is verbal assault we are talking about.
I think a fine would be the proverbial soap on some people's tongues.

It is also technically verbal assault whenever person 'x' tells person 'y' where to go, or calls them something profane.

I personally don't see why the Montreal mounties would go to such public means to outlaw insults directed towards them.
If someone is immature enough to hurl an unprovoked insult towards a mountie ... I'd bet money that they don't have either the maturity level or the brains not to do it once fuel has been added to the fire.

Oddball

 

[PMedMoe]

If it's verbal assault, why don't they prohibit insults against everyone and not just the cops?   :

 

[Gunnar]

We need to prohibit anything that could make anyone feel bad.

That should be easy to enforce. ;D

 

[Harley Sailor]

My mother always told me to Suck it up Butter Cup.

Sticks and stones will break your bones,
Names will never hurt you.

 

[kkwd]

Why just ban words? Why not gestures and dirty looks? There are laws on the books already to take care of threatening and incitable language. Anymore than that will just be the personal opinion of the officer. There could be a whole lot of tickets given out if the officer thought a word or phrase was insulting. Unless they come out with an approved list of insults. More paperwork, just ducky.

 

[Shec]

I'd love to see the lists of both approved and unapproved insults (purely for entertainment purposes you understand).

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Why not?
It is verbal assaultwe are talking about.
I think a fine would be the proverbial soap on some people's tongues.

Come again?  Calling someone a donut-eater is assault?

*sigh*

 

[Journeyman]

The key phrase is,
"The union wants......"

Is anyone expecting unions to suddenly start acting rational?

 

[Blackadder1916]

Why just ban words? Why not gestures and dirty looks?  . . .

If they did that, then some (insert ethnic stereotype of your choice) in Montreal wouldn't be able to talk at all.

 

[Sub_Guy]

This is only going to result in an increase in verbal assaults.   So what if you are called a "pig" or hear "does anyone smell bacon?" as you pass by.  If you can't handle the "lip"  on the streets, wait until you get married!  >

Stop acting like *insert slang for multiple cats* and get on with your job.

 

[wannabe SF member]

Come again?  Calling someone a donut-eater is assault?

*sigh*

Well it came from my own propensity to feel very uncomfortable with disrespect towards policemen (or anyone in uniform for that matter)
On going back, I realize that it is a bit extreme.

But hey, I heard that one can go to jail for up to 4 years for spitting on a cop in the US.

 

[kratz]

Sounds like there are others who agree the idea to fine people for speaking their mind towards the police would open up a dangerous precedent.

National Post

Fine for insulting Montreal cops 'foolishness': critics
Marianne White,  Canwest News Service 
Published: Thursday, January 29, 2009

QUEBEC -- A move by Montreal to make it illegal to insult a police officer is drawing ridicule and free-speech warnings.

The Montreal police brotherhood says officers have had enough of being called names such as "pig" and "doughnut-eater" -- and argues the proposed bylaw is aimed at bringing respect back on the streets.

"I didn't know that a thin skin accompanied flat feet. Now I see they go together," quipped Alan Borovoy, general counsel of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association.

He said Montreal's plan to fine citizens who express their "displeasure" at police officers is unacceptable.

"This whole proposal is an exercise in foolishness not worthy of being taken seriously," he said. "I have never heard anything like this."

The Canadian Police Association and the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police both said they are not aware of the existence of comparable bylaws across the country, even though they do exist in other municipalities in Quebec.

Mr. Borovoy stressed the Charter of Rights and Freedom guarantees the freedom of speech and that includes the freedom of saying nasty and offensive things.

That also applies when dealing with state authorities, said Windsor University law professor Richard Moon. "We have to accept that however hard it might be on the individuals involved and how unfair it might seem, that as representatives of the state they (the police) might have to endure some of that because we're committed to freedom of expression," he said.

"I'm not saying it's acceptable to go around insulting the police, but at the same time I'm not sure it ought to be made unlawful." The law professor, who specializes in freedom of expression issues, noted those who try to impose standards of civility and limit free speech are playing a dangerous game. There is no question such a bylaw would raise serious concerns that it would breech the charter of rights," he said.

Montreal said this week it is mulling a request from the police force to allow officers to issue tickets to anyone who verbally insults them. The Montreal police brotherhood has argued the bylaw is aimed at bringing respect back on the streets.

But other larger Canadian cities don't rely on such measures. Police spokesmen in Toronto, Winnipeg and Vancouver said similar bylaws don't exist in their jurisdiction. "And it is not being discussed," pointed out Vancouver Constable Tim Fanning.

Pierre Bosset, a law professor at the Universite du Quebec in Montreal, warned this measure could have pernicious effects. "Some people might feel provoked while other could censor themselves by fear of being fined."

He noted the shooting of 18-year-old Freddy Villanueva by Montreal police last summer only added to tensions between citizens and officers. "I'm sure there are other ways to restore confidence and respect without infringing on freedom of speech," he said.

Montreal said its lawyers are looking at the feasibility of the project and stressed 63 municipalities in Quebec have bylaws that allow officers to issue non-criminal fines to insult-hurling citizens.

The head of the legal department for the Montreal police said they have looked at judicial precedents. "Some of the offenders contested their tickets arguing they didn't insult the officer, but in all the cases we've looked at no one invoked the freedom of speech and the charter," said Alain Cardinal.

Some of those bylaws in other municipalities, notably in Quebec City, date back more than a century and municipal officials admit they are not resorting to it very often.

The most high-profile case dates back to last November when Quebec City Mayor Regis Labeaume was fined $100 for allegedly insulting a police officer at a recent university football game. His administration was at the time, and is still, in contract negotiations with the police force. The mayor has not said if he will challenge his fine in court.

END OPTIONAL TRIM

Mr. Bosset said it is certain someone will eventually challenge such a bylaw in court.

He said prosecutors would have to work hard to prove they are pursuing an important goal and that the law is a justified restriction on free speech.

"The Supreme Court of Canada considers as an important goal, for instance, protecting society against hate speech and pornography. What is the state trying to do with this law? Improve police work? Protect the ego of police officers?" Mr. Bosset asked.

Jurists questioned how the city will define the word insult, noting it can be subjective.

"But people who call them such names might not perceive this as an insult," Mr. Moore said, adding the crafting of such a bylaw promises to be a huge challenge.