MS Office vs OpenOffice for the CAF & DND (From: The Defence Budget)

[dapaterson]

Migrating to a completely different office suite is neither easy, or cheap. We'd spend far more than we'd save with all the helpdesk headaches and migration headaches for very little gain.

So, as we move from Office 2003 to Office 2010, and from XP to Windows 7, why not move to a suite we don't pay millions in licensing fees for annually?

 

[Inquisitor]

So, as we move from Office 2003 to Office 2010, and from XP to Windows 7, why not move to a suite we don't pay millions in licensing fees for annually?

Sounds like a great idea. Though the apparent savings might be lost when one considers compatibility issues with other Canadian and Foreign users, when exchanging info.

Then there are conversion and training costs that would also eat away at the savings

 

[PuckChaser]

So, as we move from Office 2003 to Office 2010, and from XP to Windows 7, why not move to a suite we don't pay millions in licensing fees for annually?

Lets switch to Linux as well, or maybe a distributed computing model to save money on individual desktops? Those millions saved annually are going to go directly into the understaffed helpdesks, and with Shared Services Canada, we're now the only agency using a Linux/Open Office platform, dumping even more money and PYs into supporting a one-off system.

 

[dapaterson]

GoC should make the move wholesale to OpenOffice.  It's compatible (enough) with MS.

Pissing away millions a year to Bill Gates for zero operational benefit is a waste of scare dollars.

 

[FJAG]

GoC should make the move wholesale to OpenOffice.  It's compatible (enough) with MS.

Pissing away millions a year to Bill Gates for zero operational benefit is a waste of scare dollars.

Actually such a move would be very costly. There are many existing software elements throughout DND and the government that interconnect to MSOffice (SharePoint, RDIMS) that would not work with Open Office.

Further, most workers we hire have already trained or worked with MSOffice and so there is rarely a need to retrain.

The vast business and government workplace are mostly MSOffice users which make interoperability and sharing of documents in their native format very easy. While OpenOffice is relatively compatible, its not perfectly compatible and as a result workers have to do extra work if opening legacy MSOffice files or doing collaborative work with MSOffice workers in other departments. I think you will find that the improvements within MSOffice and SharePoint make collaborative work one of the great beauties of the across-the-board MS systems.

MSOffice (together with most MS products) have been extensively tested by DND and are secure programs that work effectively in all our systems. A changeover would require extensive security and interoperability reviews by ADM(IM). Our back end tech staff knows how to remote update, lock down functions, and maintain MS systems, A switchover, even if acceptable from a security point of view, would cause extensive turbulence, direct costs and lost opportunity costs.

I think OpenOffice has many uses; particularly for single users and small office where outside collaboration is not an issue but mega businesses like the Government of Canada need a much more robust, secure and interoperable system than OpenOffice (even 4.0) can make available.  :2c:

Here's a short article about a German city that went to OpenOffice in 2007 and in 2012 went back to MSOffice because OpenOffice simply wasn't up to the job.

http://betanews.com/2012/12/11/one-german-city-drops-openoffice-for-ms-office-why-open-source-still-fails-to-impress/

 

[dapaterson]

MS Office is not secure; but it has a company we can blame when insecurities pop up, as has happened numerous times in the past and will again in future.  I have yet to hear of MS granting any rebates when its software fails, making me wonder why we're paying millions every year.

I'd be curious to see a true cost analysis of switching; turning off the millions we pour into MS yearly for our site licenses vs the one-times costs of switching would be an interesting analysis.

SharePoint successfully locks away information from users by imposing byzantine access rules; it's part and parcel of DND/CF's desire to classify and designate beyond reason.  Tools that lessen the ability to restrict information are needed; not tools that increase layers of access control.

 

[Robert0288]

MS Office is not secure; but it has a company we can blame when insecurities pop up, as has happened numerous times in the past and will again in future.  I have yet to hear of MS granting any rebates when its software fails, making me wonder why we're paying millions every year.

I'd be curious to see a true cost analysis of switching; turning off the millions we pour into MS yearly for our site licenses vs the one-times costs of switching would be an interesting analysis.

But would it really be just a 1 time cost?  If MS Office is not secure and insecurities continue to popup.  It is MS that creates patches and hotfixes for its problems.  If we move to open office, who would be replace them, the CF or SSC?  What is the cost of making sure these patches and updates are actually secure?  From my understanding Open office exactly that.  Open.  How secure would our networks be after implementing a product that has this kind of potential to be exploited.  I'm by no means an expert, but it just gets me thinking.... And also playing devils advocate

 

[Furniture]

Back around '04-'05 the CFWOS (Canadian Forces Weather and Oceanographic Service) computers changed to a Linux OS with Open Office as our word processor and PowerPoint clone. They were explained to us users by the IT guys as a better way to do things and far cheaper than Microsoft, what they turned out to be was prone to crashes and frustratingly incompatible with the DWAN computers using Windows. Open source software might be great for guys that like to play with computers at home, but for use as a office system my experience has led me to believe they are inappropriate.

 

[JorgSlice]

Back around '04-'05 the CFWOS (Canadian Forces Weather and Oceanographic Service) computers changed to a Linux OS with Open Office as our word processor and PowerPoint clone. They were explained to us users by the IT guys as a better way to do things and far cheaper than Microsoft, what they turned out to be was prone to crashes and frustratingly incompatible with the DWAN computers using Windows. Open source software might be great for guys that like to play with computers at home, but for use as a office system my experience has led me to believe they are inappropriate.

I worked in a department within an organisation that utilised Open Source systems and actually encourage their usage, despite the rest of the org using MS Suite. Never had any issues, compatibility was seamless as long as you saved the docs as .doc .ppt .xls etc.

However, I would see how in 04/05 could have been a little rocky. Its greatly improved since for sure.

 

[PuckChaser]

MS Office is not secure;

No piece of commercially available software is ever secure. The amount of people who in their spare time look for vulnerabilities (especially in the world's most used productivity suite) is exponentially higher than the number of coders closing those loopholes. We compound this issue by running a 10 year old Office suite and a 12 year old (non-supported by Vendor) operating system. Or hindrance isn't the licensing fees (that many other companies pay, its the cost of doing business), its the Baseline system that probably hasn't changed since Windows 98. Most problems I've ever had with my DWAN PCs are Baseline corrupting itself seemingly at random. We need to scrap Baseline and start using the myriad of programs including in the Server 2003 and Windows suite that we already pay for to keep drives synced, and programs up to date. Your millions in savings would be reducing the helpdesk hours designated to fix a Baseline failure that happens more than it should.

 

[Occam]

No piece of commercially available software is ever secure. The amount of people who in their spare time look for vulnerabilities (especially in the world's most used productivity suite) is exponentially higher than the number of coders closing those loopholes. We compound this issue by running a 10 year old Office suite and a 12 year old (non-supported by Vendor) operating system. Or hindrance isn't the licensing fees (that many other companies pay, its the cost of doing business), its the Baseline system that probably hasn't changed since Windows 98. Most problems I've ever had with my DWAN PCs are Baseline corrupting itself seemingly at random. We need to scrap Baseline and start using the myriad of programs including in the Server 2003 and Windows suite that we already pay for to keep drives synced, and programs up to date. Your millions in savings would be reducing the helpdesk hours designated to fix a Baseline failure that happens more than it should.

Already happening;  SCCM is doing most of the work now.

 

[dapaterson]

Latest in our brilliant IT architecture: Personal Folders for Outlook will no longer be permitted on network drives - they'll have to be stored on local machines.  (Part of the Win 7 /Office 2k10 migration).  Your archives will no longer be accessible if you have to log on on a different computer.

Contracting the DWAN out to Google (Gmail, Google docs) begins to sound better and better...  >

 

[George Wallace]

Latest in our brilliant IT architecture: Personal Folders for Outlook will no longer be permitted on network drives - they'll have to be stored on local machines.  (Part of the Win 7 /Office 2k10 migration).  Your archives will no longer be accessible if you have to log on on a different computer.

Contracting the DWAN out to Google (Gmail, Google docs) begins to sound better and better...  >

Or, heaven forbid, everyone is issued a 1 TB portable drive....... ;D

 

[secondchance]

I use OpenOffice at home and I sm hapy with it.

 

[George Wallace]

I use OpenOffice at home and I sm hapy with it.

Using it at home and at DND are two different things.

PS.  Your spell checker doesn't work.

 

[PuckChaser]

Or, heaven forbid, everyone is issued a 1 TB portable drive....... ;D

If you need to collect 1TB of information in your email, you need your own hoarders show on A&E. That being said, I absolutely agree that everyone should have a USB drive with their DWAN account, would remove a lot of load on the servers if you carried your stuff around everywhere.

 

[GAP]

I absolutely agree that everyone should have a USB drive with their DWAN account, would remove a lot of load on the servers if you carried your stuff around everywhere.

Actually, you might as well publish it. That option offers zero security and encourages removal of data by USB device....didn't we just go through that little scenerio? .....

 

[George Wallace]

If you need to collect 1TB of information in your email, you need your own hoarders show on A&E.

Have you ever seen an OPs WOs mail box?  ;D

There are other items of data that people use on a regular basis, other than their email.  Depending on Trade, some of those data storage requirements may be quite high.  I have had to save to disc large parts of my Q Drive over the years, and clean up our N Drive at least three times in the last three years, saving to an external hard drive on loan from the IT people.  Now they want their loaner back.  Where do we now save much of this reference material so that others in the unit can easily access it?  Having our own dedicated Server is out of the question.  Even the suggestion that we purchase a 3 TB drive for their Server, to be shared with other units as well, was turned down by the IT folk. 


The amount of data that we are starting to work with, access, store, etc. is getting larger.  Making our storage capabilities smaller seems more than illogical.

 

[s2184]

Are there any Government entities similar to DND currently using Open Office instead of MS Suite?

What about other countries? Are they using Open Source?

Is Open Source recommended for government sectors? What are the risk factors? Are you prepared to face them?

 

[Robert0288]

I absolutely agree that everyone should have a USB drive with their DWAN account

The security guy in me just had a heart attack and died.  As it is, how many people do you think actually use the scrubbers like they're supposed to? Or will loose it on the bus, or in the parking lot while filled with information that shouldn't be lost.