Musicians protest Military use of music as weapons

[George Wallace]

Well, we can always give them the "silent treatment"; prolonged enclosure in a dark, soundproof room...

It would be a bit more expensive, but Space may provide a better soundproof environment.  It is only a few minutes of Rocket noise that one would have to suffer, and then silence. 

 

[geo]

Well.... the Scottish bagpipes were considered a Psychological weapon - wayback when......

 

[jollyjacktar]

How much hearing damage occurs in most modern-day teenagers and adults due to listening to music too loudly, or going to concerts?

I don't think of it as torture, but aggressive interrogation tactics. Would you prefer they bin the music, and go to alligator clips and batteries, or maybe some good ol' water boarding?

Exactly.  We used to use similar methods in POW cages during exercises when I was involved in running them for other units.  We used a combination of complete silence and white noise to soften the POWs for interrogation.  It was not at a harmfull decible level, but was bloody annoying to both sides of the wire.  As for it's effectiveness, I don't know.  The interrogations were conducted by IntOs, and they keep mum.  What is current method wise, again I can't say.  This was almost 20 years ago.  

All in all, they are there because of their lifestyle and the company they keep and deeds done.  They made the bed, they can lie in it.  Better treatment than we can expect if the tables were turned IMHO.

 

[Niteshade]

"innocent" ? Yeah right...... :

You have some new evidence that proves that Donald Vance is a terrorist, and ought to have been charged with something? Donald Vance is INNOCENT. As in not charged. Detained without cause. Tortured without due cause. Heck, he was even an FBI Informant. So he's a good guy getting the bad guy treatment.

Or how about Brittish citizen Ruhal Ahmed, who was released without charge? what was he charged with? Maybe you have some extra information to share?

There is comment about being subjected to loud noise because you choose to work between 4 turboprops. Your choice. Vance wasn't given that choice. He was forcibly subjected to it.

And Danjanou, I am not stupid (all the time). Perhaps I have not yet been hardened by the CF system so as I no longer have feelings when innocent people are punished. Do I understand that sometimes bad things have to happen in order to save soldiers/civilian lives? Yes. But where do you draw the line?

There is talk of POW camps. Vance wasn't a POW. He was an FBI informant. An Unpaid informant.

There is talk that teenagers subject themselves to listening to loud music. Does this mean it is acceptable as a form of torture then? An aggressive interrogation tactic then? Hrm. Ok. If he was a combatant/POW or someone who wasn't already co-operating.

I think we can all see my point(s). Whether you agree with them or not is a different matter.

But back to my original comment: If half of it is true, then indeed: WOW. Total miscarriage of power.

Nites

 

[jollyjacktar]

I am dumbfounded, Niteshade, at your surprise the US is alledgely using sonic means as a psyops tool.  It has been done with great success before.  Maybe you are too young to remember Panama. O'l Pineapple Face did cave under music blaring at his palace, it worked.  If memory serves me correctly, others have used music as tools before too.  It's a tough world out there.

This is a detention center, not a  5 star resort.  They came under scrunity of the authorities for some reasoning.  Upstanding members of society do not as a  rule get sent to someplace even as nasty as the local crowbar hotel nevermind Gitmo.  America considers herself at war... she is not going to be playing pattycake. Duh...

 

[Sig_Des]

You have some new evidence that proves that Donald Vance is a terrorist, and ought to have been charged with something? Donald Vance is INNOCENT. As in not charged. Detained without cause. Tortured without due cause. Heck, he was even an FBI Informant. So he's a good guy getting the bad guy treatment.

Or how about Brittish citizen Ruhal Ahmed, who was released without charge? what was he charged with? Maybe you have some extra information to share?

There is comment about being subjected to loud noise because you choose to work between 4 turboprops. Your choice. Vance wasn't given that choice. He was forcibly subjected to it.

And Danjanou, I am not stupid (all the time). Perhaps I have not yet been hardened by the CF system so as I no longer have feelings when innocent people are punished. Do I understand that sometimes bad things have to happen in order to save soldiers/civilian lives? Yes. But where do you draw the line?

There is talk of POW camps. Vance wasn't a POW. He was an FBI informant. An Unpaid informant.

There is talk that teenagers subject themselves to listening to loud music. Does this mean it is acceptable as a form of torture then? An aggressive interrogation tactic then? Hrm. Ok. If he was a combatant/POW or someone who wasn't already co-operating.

I think we can all see my point(s). Whether you agree with them or not is a different matter.

But back to my original comment: If half of it is true, then indeed: WOW. Total miscarriage of power.

Nites

So what's your issue? Use of sound/lack of sound as an interrogation tactic, or Vance being held, because I'm getting mixed signals here.

 

[Greymatters]

You have some new evidence that proves that Donald Vance is a terrorist, and ought to have been charged with something? Donald Vance is INNOCENT. As in not charged. Detained without cause. Tortured without due cause. Heck, he was even an FBI Informant. So he's a good guy getting the bad guy treatment.  Or how about Brittish citizen Ruhal Ahmed, who was released without charge? what was he charged with? Maybe you have some extra information to share?  

I'll skip on the torture issue, but reference your comments about charges:

There's a big difference between 'innocence' and 'not having enough evidence to convict them with'.  

For example, a DA (whatever equivalent) looks at a case and decides we won't press charges, it might be because:
(a) they dont think they can win with what they have - it would convince a person in security or intelligence, but wouldnt convince a judge or jury who isnt aware of how the 'terror world' operates  
(b) the really good stuff isnt admissable in court even if it proves guilt due to how it was obtained  
(c) the agency with the evidence doesnt want to provide the evidence or subject matter expert to the court because it might expose their secret source or other ongoing activities
(d) people with personal knowledge and evidence change their minds and decide not to testify (or they die/get killed), or
(e) the DA/equivalent doesnt want to blow their success rate and future career by prosecuting a case with a low chance of success.  

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I am dumbfounded, Niteshade, at your surprise the US is alledgely using sonic means as a psyops tool.  It has been done with great success before.  Maybe you are too young to remember Panama. O'l Pineapple Face did cave under music blaring at his palace, it worked.  If memory serves me correctly, others have used music as tools before too.  It's a tough world out there. This is a detention center, not a  5 star resort.  They came under scrunity of the authorities for some reasoning.  Upstanding members of society do not as a  rule get sent to someplace even as nasty as the local crowbar hotel nevermind Gitmo.  America considers herself at war... she is not going to be playing pattycake. Duh...

At least as far back as Joshua and the walls of Jericho ;D

 

[Niteshade]

I give up.

Nites

 

[jollyjacktar]

At least as far back as Joshua and the walls of Jericho ;D

Being the heathen SOB that I am, I forgot about that story.  Sounds like a job for the mythbusters, would be interesting to see if indeed you could make walls fall down by sonic warfare.  Maybe they were early headbangers. ;D