Muslim anger follows Pope's comments

[GAP]

to the best of my knowledge, Buddhism has never forcibly converted anyone.

Never thought of them...you are right...the only thing I've seen them do is to themselves.

 

[North Star]

Not being a Roman Catholic, I decided to look the speech up and found it on the BBC. I thought it was pretty good and well-balanced. Too bad fundamentalist Islamists are using it to fuel misinformation in order to garner support on "Arab street" for their murderous campaign, like they did with the Danish cartoons.

As for the "pot calling the kettle black" argument, if an Islamic scholar made a pointed criticism of the RC church, would Catholics be in such an uproar? Probably not. Sure, the RC church has some sketchy things in its past (my Northern Irish Prot side talking) but you can't really judge an institution wholly on its past actions. Its current status also has to be taken into account and seeing the charitable work the RC church has undertaken, combined with its attempts at inter-faith dialogue, reconciliation, social activism (regardless of your opinion of its "backwardness"), and pacifism, it's not doing half-bad relative to others.

 

[vonGarvin]

The Muslim world, and indeed, the whole world, shouldn't be giving credence to the hypocritical words of the Catholic church, who have killied, maimed and murdered more people than any religious institution...and don't forget the child molestation...

Point being - the Pope has no moral high ground; no religious instuition does...these are just the words of a frail old man heading up a backward and outdated organization.

Stop.  Please stop.
Thank you

 

[Trinity]

Stop.  Please stop.
Thank you

+1
ty garvin

 

[Nemo888]

Never thought of them...you are right...the only thing I've seen them do is to themselves.

This is a good point to note the differences between religions. The Buddha said that all religion was to be respected. Tried to destroy the Caste system as much as he was able saying ones actions dictated ones class, not ones birth. He forbade the slave trade as a livelihood for Buddhists. He allowed the ordaining of women, against public opinion. Made rules for the ethical treatment of animals and banned animal sacrifice which was very popular at the time. He respected warriors and understood politics, he was a Prince and new well the ways of war. But he thought that violence rarely solved problems and often made them worse. He described it as an angry man picking up a hot coal from a fire with his bare hand and throwing it at his enemy, both of whom get burned. He also said that hate never dispelled hate. As well the Buddha asked for his students to be sceptical, as wisdom comes from experience, not mindless dogma.

Rather difficult to turn that into a platform for a holy war, lol

edit: I should also say that it would have been the most populous religion on earth today if not for repeated Muslim invasions of India/Afghanistan etc, the murder of countless monks and the plundering of thousands of monasteries and universities.

 

[warrickdll]

Could depend on how you view the conflict in Sri Lanka.

Forced conversion to Buddhism might not figure highly but military forces have been used (or backed). If you have time to waste you could always dig up the Democratic Karen Buddhist Army (but again that isn't about conversion).

 

[DBA]

The Japanese mixture of Buddhism and Shinto spread a lot of grief during the first half of the 20th century. It doesn't have to be the actual teachings of a religion that cause the problem. Its when a movement decides their way is so beneficial to mankind or is the will of a God that any actions to spread it are justified. Implicit in this is a sense of superiority that others are somehow inferior for not already accepting the truth.

The Pope's speech from what I read of it is a renunciation of the use of force to spread a religion and included supporting religious arguements to that effect. The Pope has already made several formal apologies for actions during the Crusades and other periods. No such apology has appeared from the Muslim side for the Jihads against countless countries across the Middle East and Europe.

From my viewpoint it's pretty obvious a large number of Muslims if not a large percentage of them view speading Islam by the sword as a good thing. They believe the world will be a better place and more pleasing to God if all non-Muslims were brought to heal. So them using violence is the will of God and our use of violence is against the will of God.

 

[Nemo888]

The Japanese mixture of Buddhism and Shinto spread a lot of grief during the first half of the 20th century. It doesn't have to be the actual teachings of a religion that cause the problem. Its when a movement decides their way is so beneficial to mankind or is the will of a God that any actions to spread it are justified. Implicit in this is a sense of superiority that others are somehow inferior for not already accepting the truth.

The Pope's speech from what I read of it is a renunciation of the use of force to spread a religion and included supporting religious arguements to that effect. The Pope has already made several formal apologies for actions during the Crusades and other periods. No such apology has appeared from the Muslim side for the Jihads against countless countries across the Middle East and Europe.

From my viewpoint it's pretty obvious a large number of Muslims if not a large percentage of them view speading Islam by the sword as a good thing. They believe the world will be a better place and more pleasing to God if all non-Muslims were brought to heal. So them using violence is the will of God and our use of violence is against the will of God.

Well said. Personally I think this clash was inevitable, but I expected it to start 60 to 100 years from now. Theocracy doesn't play well with Western Democracy. We look like we are having way too much fun. Hard to explain after awhile why God does not smote us like he should for our perverted hedonism, strangely he seems to reward us for our tolerance,....Like it was a good thing or something.

 

[tomahawk6]

If they would riot in the streets over cartoons then I am amazed they havent marched on the Vatican. What is very clear is that the muslim street doesnt believe in freedom of speech.

 

[Kat Stevens]

-"As for the "pot calling the kettle black" argument, if an Islamic scholar made a pointed criticism of the RC church, would Catholics be in such an uproar?"-

  They do.... I believe they call it "Thursday".

 

[tomahawk6]

Friday would be a better day. ;D

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

First of all Buddhism is not a religion it's a philosophy.
They don't believe in a God per se. If you want to have a debate on spirituality or religion that is probably the seeds of a different thread....and let's get a few people who know what they are talking about.

Religion is a major force in human endeavors....it is people searching for the answers to ultimate questions (why am I here? does my life have meaning? etc); a truth which is bigger than all of us. Yes it is and has been highjacked for a lot of bad stuff over the centuries...but it has also done a lot of good...our public education system, charitable causes, compassion for our neighbours and enemies....etc etc

The basis of Western society is the law of Moses and the teachings of Christ. LIke it or not folks that is why Western Society is at the point we are at....when we stray from it we get Hitlers and Mussolinis and Stalins.....kinda like the Taliban!

 

[Nemo888]

First of all Buddhism is not a religion it's a philosophy.
They don't believe in a God per se. If you want to have a debate on spirituality or religion that is probably the seeds of a different thread....and let's get a few people who know what they are talking about.

Religion is a major force in human endeavors....it is people searching for the answers to ultimate questions (why am I here? does my life have meaning? etc); a truth which is bigger than all of us. Yes it is and has been highjacked for a lot of bad stuff over the centuries...but it has also done a lot of good...our public education system, charitable causes, compassion for our neighbours and enemies....etc etc

The basis of Western society is the law of Moses and the teachings of Christ. LIke it or not folks that is why Western Society is at the point we are at....when we stray from it we get Hitlers and Mussolinis and Stalins.....kinda like the Taliban!

I guess those three years I lived in a Buddhist Monastery were just a dream,...
But too quote my new favourite blowhard, "and let's get a few people who know what they are talking about."

And I have a new nominee for most ironic public statement of the year:
"Anyone who describes Islam as a religion as intolerant encourages violence," Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.  ;D

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060915/pakistan_pope_060915/20060915?hub=CTVNewsAt11

 

[Magravan]

First of all Buddhism is not a religion it's a philosophy.
They don't believe in a God per se. If you want to have a debate on spirituality or religion that is probably the seeds of a different thread....and let's get a few people who know what they are talking about.

Religion is a major force in human endeavors....it is people searching for the answers to ultimate questions (why am I here? does my life have meaning? etc); a truth which is bigger than all of us. Yes it is and has been highjacked for a lot of bad stuff over the centuries...but it has also done a lot of good...our public education system, charitable causes, compassion for our neighbours and enemies....etc etc

The basis of Western society is the law of Moses and the teachings of Christ. LIke it or not folks that is why Western Society is at the point we are at....when we stray from it we get Hitlers and Mussolinis and Stalins.....kinda like the Taliban!

I sincerely.hope that you are saying that the Taliban are as they are because they have strayed from the core concepts of Islam... And not stating that anything other than Christian belief results in a lesser state and people.

 

[sigpig]

Religion is a major force in human endeavors....it is people searching for the answers to ultimate questions (why am I here? does my life have meaning? etc); a truth which is bigger than all of us. Yes it is and has been highjacked for a lot of bad stuff over the centuries...but it has also done a lot of good...our public education system, charitable causes, compassion for our neighbours and enemies....etc etc

The basis of Western society is the law of Moses and the teachings of Christ. LIke it or not folks that is why Western Society is at the point we are at....when we stray from it we get Hitlers and Mussolinis and Stalins.....kinda like the Taliban!

Seems to me that the law of Moses and the teachings of Christ were the basis of the Dark Ages. Most of the things that we'd think of as being central to Western society - law, democracy, philosophy, medicine, education, science, to name but a few - owe their origins to ancient Greece or pre-Christian Rome. At one time or another, the Christian church has opposed all of the things on that list as being ungodly.

Many of our greatest medical achievements - transplants, vaccinations, fertility treatments, to name but a few - were initially opposed by the church, and, it seems, are still held to be blasphemous in certain parts of christianity.

At one time, Arabic science, medicine, technology and culture was the most advanced on the planet, bar none. But then, the Mullahs decided that nothing in science could contradict the Koran, and now look what religion has brought for the region.

Here is a great statement:

From the time when the barbarians overran the Western Empire to the time of the revival of letters, the influence of the Church of Rome had been generally favourable to science, to civilisation, and to good government. But, during the last three centuries, to stunt the growth of the human mind has been her chief object. Throughout Christendom, whatever advance has been made in knowledge, in freedom, in wealth, and in the arts of life, has been made in spite of her, and has everywhere been in inverse proportion to her power.

- The History Of England Vol. I.

1858, by Thomas Babington Macaulay.

With the nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons available today, can we really afford to have the hatred and division caused by the debate over whose ancient superstition is the right one?

 

[Magravan]

Seems to me that the law of Moses and the teachings of Christ were the basis of the Dark Ages. Most of the things that we'd think of as being central to Western society - law, democracy, philosophy, medicine, education, science, to name but a few - owe their origins to ancient Greece or pre-Christian Rome. At one time or another, the Christian church has opposed all of the things on that list as being ungodly.

Many of our greatest medical achievements - transplants, vaccinations, fertility treatments, to name but a few - were initially opposed by the church, and, it seems, are still held to be blasphemous in certain parts of christianity.

At one time, Arabic science, medicine, technology and culture was the most advanced on the planet, bar none. But then, the Mullahs decided that nothing in science could contradict the Koran, and now look what religion has brought for the region.

Here is a great statement:
With the nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons available today, can we really afford to have the hatred and division caused by the debate over whose ancient superstition is the right one?

Probably not, but that's never stopped anyone before...

 

[1feral1]

Whinge, whinge, whinge! Seems many muslims these days always want an excuse, and are always volitile as nitro glycerin. Seen an efigy of the pope being burned by a bunch of nutcases, again anything to have a stab at the west to express their hatred for us. They always think they are hard done by. Boo hoo!

Come on muslims, time to suck it up and get over it. Time to stop living in the 13th century.

Sadly the gap again has been widened between us and them, and quite frankly I DON'T CARE!


Wes

 

[Juvat]

Seems that tolerance is not for everyone.  Or is this incident actually proving the pope right?

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/060916/w091602.html

My deux cents

 

[Kat Stevens]

Apparently they're thick sods, too.  A Catholic Pope makes an innocuous comment, so a Greek Orthodox and an Anglican church get the business.  I'm a live and let live kind of guy, usually, but this is waaay out of hand.  Almost time to declare a New Crusade.  Always remember to bring your nukes to an RPG fight......

 

[Juvat]

Not only Greek Orthodox or Anglican, but it seems that Roman Catholic and Greek Catholic churches have also felt the scorn in Palestine.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060916.wgaza0916/BNStory/International/home