Naughty15tracy's questions about 1980s combats, kit, etc.

[naughty15tracy]

vern, sent you a note; hope it went through, yours tracy

 

[GAP]

And trust Vern.. as she was just near retirement in the 80's.. so she can help you out!

Ohhh.....you fell for it, she's gonna skin you alive....... op:

 

[armyvern]

And trust Vern.. as she was just near retirement in the 80's.. so she can help you out!

So sayeth the man who would have had his application for enrollment rejected in the early 80s ... for being too short!!  >

And, you calling me old; that's it - pistols at dawn. My old office - you know where that's at. We'll have to book it during my leave though. 

 

[armyvern]

vern, sent you a note; hope it went through, yours tracy

Recd and just responded.

 

[medicineman]

And trust Vern.. as she was just near retirement in the 80's.. so she can help you out!

Vern,

At least he didn't say "...she was just near retirement in HER 80's..."

:stirpot: op:

MM

 

[naughty15tracy]

vern,
measurements are as follows:
height - 5'
chest - 30"
waist - 23" (smaller than what i thought)
hips - 31"
andi take a size 7 1/8 ball cap for baseball

for the combat boots, did they not have smaller sizes for cadets? what about the mk3s? do they have smaller sizes? if they do, what is the differance between the mk1, mk2, and mk3s?
oh and is there an after market that sells hats like the field caps they had in the 60s/70s (before the robin hood cap)?
thanks, and i also put a replay on your message (thanks for the honest answer too)

 

[armyvern]

For the OG 107 combats then, you'd wear size 1 X-short X-small. Same for parka, raingear etc. Same size for both your jacket and trousers. I personally wore 4 short small (But, I'm 5'7).

T-shirts (V-neck of course): X-small.

Combat boots (nope, no MkIs) you'd be size 2.5/3 in MkIIIs. We made MkIIIs smaller sized than the outdated boots because we started letting shrimps (read: Bzzzzz) join.  >

Here's a couple of links for you:

Combat pants
Bush hat
Scarf

(PS: Which one of you tall fellas from BC is selling your 'found' cadpat and many pairs of cadapt TW gloves on ebay this week??  : Wow - and all the BGen, LGen and MGen slip-ons too and cap badges out of Nova Scotia ... ... a f'n sup tech no doubt.)

Nothing your size in stock here at this link

Although, this place here does have some size smalls available; you probably could get away with wearing them.

 

[naughty15tracy]

thanks for the sizes. what are the sizes between us?  also, how would a small sized p82 web gear fit on me? would it be a sloppy fit or will it fit snug?

 

[armyvern]

thanks for the sizes. what are the sizes between us?  also, how would a small sized p82 web gear fit on me? would it be a sloppy fit or will it fit snug?

Well, way back when I had a 26 waist - I wore a small and it was a wee bit loose on me, but it's the best fit that you're going to get for that piece of kit. While my ass (and waist) have grown, my upper half has unfortunately not - the gawds hate me.

Many sizes between an XShort XSmall and a the 4RegSmall that I wore.  You'd be blousing your combat pants pretty much at the knees, and the shirt would end at your mid thigh. Next size up from an XShort XSmall would be ShortSmall, followed by ShortMedium, Short Tall. You need, ideally, the Xshort XSmall and failing that, try to find Short Small.

Vern (edit because I can't even spell my own name properly)

 

[Loachman]

Thanks guys. the 4 things i am still looking at getting are: Military map (c.f.s. naniamo from 1983 +/- 1 or 2 years) would be the best or c.f.b. wainwright from 1985, other than that any military map that was used my a foot soldier and is folded to fit his/her pocket),

It may take you some time and effort to find a map. Being paper, they are obviously fragile and few people would bother to retain training area maps as they are constantly replaced. I was in Wainwright in 1983 and 1985, but even on the slim chance that I have an old map stashed away somewhere it's in a box that hasn't seen the light of day since then. Yes, I have stuff that's been packed up for that long, through several moves, and I'm probably not the only one.

Tam o’Shanter (size 7 1/8 wich should fit me or a small teen girl), C Scot R tartan swatch or what ever you call the piece of cloth behind the cap badge,

Your best bet would be to contact that Regiment, especially for that swatch (if there's a proper name, and I'm sure that there is, I don't know it either. You can get specific details about the hat, including the toorie (little coloured puffy ball on top) and perhaps the name of the current manufacturer and order one directly from there.

i have a set of combat boots but the mk3, so if i could find a mk1 that would be cool.

As Vern has pointed out, you're not going to find Mark I or II boots in that size. The Mark IIIs have been around for a few decades and date back at least until the early-to-mid eighties. I was issued Mark Is when I joined in 1973. They were a version of the Greb Kodiak boot, except in black rather than the light brown that the commercial version was produced in. The sole was a shallower chevron pattern rather than the current stone collector type, and returned on the aircrew version of the boot. I may be able to get a photo of that if I can find a fellow Pilot  who actually wears an issue boot. The welt (top edge of the sole) had fine ribbing designed to require more time to clean. The Mark II was almost the same, but the way that the upper leather was stitched to the lower leather changed, and that remained the same on the Mark III. That's harder to explain.

other than thatall i need is info and maybe some pics of items from that time period. i can not believe how hard it is to find sertian items or even the info about gear from than.

Surplus shops used to be full of it, but that stuff has long since disappeared. I have loads of photos, but they're all on film and I have not yet found the time to digitize them.

1. field pay from the early 80s to mid 80s; how much and what denomination was it in?

I cannot remember what the daily rate was, but it was generally issued in cash in the field, at least on longer exercises. That was done as a parade. The cashier would have a box of bills on a wooden folding table, and be accompanied by an armed guard. We generally employed a large and mean-looking Flight Engineer nicknamed Igor in the latter role. His finger was too big to fit through the trigger guard of the Browning pistol, but he could insert the bullets into any would-be robber manually. Or so the standard joke was, anyway.

what pocket did they carry their wallet, keys, lighter, smokes, gum, and what ever in?

That would vary with individual preference. I keep my wallet in my rear right trouser pocket, my keys and change in my right front, I quite smoking when I was four years old, and I do not chew gum as it complicates walking. I have seen people with waterproof plastic cigarette boxes, but never paid attention to where they kept them. You shouldn't be smoking anyway.

even though i picked up some grey wool socks, i am not sure if they are the actual style used so if anyone can tell me about them or if you have a pic of them that would be cool,

Plain, heavy, light grey socks. They used to sell them in the Canex until recently, but I do not know if they still do or not.

how do you ladder lace your boots, or how did they lace combat boots?

Lace them normally. There is something seriously wrong with anybody who would straight lace combat boots.

what should dose the lanyard go on and what would be the normal thing attached to it?

Normally the left, but there may have been regimental variations, and not all units wore them, and not all ranks. They were generally supposed to have a whistle on the end, but I have seen such things as bottle openers (alcohol was usually/often permitted in the field back then).

any idea where i can find original combat name tape (i found a set of ones very simular but still off a bit)?

CP Gear. There were sometimes slight variations in the nametags anyway, so don't get too fussy. I'd suggest PMing Matt Fisher directly and specifying the old olive style as I did not see that option on their website.

i am assuming this, but underwear is just the ones you buy at the canex/sears, same with bras (taking it that females warn them)?

There were horrible olive green cotton boxer shorts issued, but not to Reservists back then, and not very many people wore them anyway. I don't think that any women did. Wear what you like. Thongs were not yet invented though.

the only other thing i am woundering is how would you pack all your gear for going over seas.

The rucksack of the time was the Rucksack Universal C2, now known unofficially as the 64 Pattern or Jump rucksack. The old and awful 64 Pattern Cargo Pack was still seen sometimes in the early seventies. I've seen reproductions in surplus shops recently, but the quality is terrible and the fabric and fittings are nothing like the original. The barracks box back then was a rectangular item with flat fibreglass sides in a metal frame. I have both of these, have no idea which old box the cargo pack is in, and cannot get at the barracks box for another couple of months.

oh, and by the way, my dad used to have the p53 pattern gear (i think it was called p53 gear, the stuff from the 1950s) because he said the velcro stuff from the 1960s was , well lets just say, he hated it. i have been looking on tebay for the 1950s gear and for the map, but very little have been on there for web gear and no old military maps from the 1980s ever show up on ebay.

52 Pattern, developed during the Korean War. It was a unique Canadian design, combining the worst features of the British 37 Pattern and the US WWII webbing. It was hard to adjust (jackets on/jackets off), never sat right, and pinched and gouged. I have two sets, somewhere. One is as-issued, and one is modified with velcro so that, although it looks like the original, it was much quicker to adjust and much more comfortable. The initial 52 Pattern had brass buckles and fittings, but later examples had the one-inch plastic buckles developed for the 64 Pattern webbing on the waterbottle and mess tin carriers - produced specifically for Reserve consumption.

because he said the velcro stuff from the 1960s was , well lets just say, he hated it.

It was overly simple and basic, and the velcro tended to fall apart, and noisily. Many people guntaped things on. I carried an extra mess tin carrier or two, and sometimes 52 Pattern ammunition pouches, on it.

i would probably find getting an fnc1 easier than finding a map.

Not likely. They are Prohibited Weapons now. Stupid Lieberal governments.

 

[naughty15tracy]

thanks vern. it must have been fun trying to fit everyone in combats. sounds like trying to fit a group of women in bras. at least i can get away with not wearing a bra (if i started to grow i well be tipping forward all the time).

if i take a size extra small/extra short uniform (how did the sizes work for the dress and work dress uniforms, the same?), how did the web belt size work? can an extra short/extra small person use a size small web belt with no problum?

Loachman,
thanks for the info on the combat boots. so i take it, when my dad did basic, he would have had the mk3s.

 

[armyvern]

... The sole was a shallower chevron pattern rather than the current stone collector type, and returned on the aircrew version of the boot. I may be able to get a photo of that if I can find a fellow Pilot  who actually wears an issue boot. The welt (top edge of the sole) had fine ribbing designed to require more time to clean. The Mark II was almost the same, but the way that the upper leather was stitched to the lower leather changed, and that remained the same on the Mark III. That's harder to explain...

Gawd, not the pilot boots!!  >

A few short years ago, we had to issue those damn things out to the troops when the dies for the MkIIIs began failing as an interim measure. They suck for the Army!! The old chevron pattern on them was/is solid on the edge of the sole ... leaving no room for the mud/water to squish out the sides of the soles - an essential feature for an Army guy/gal. Ours may collect rocks, but at least they let the mud out the sides so we weren't walking (or falling) on mud laden cushions or hydroplaning while traipsing through puddles and ditchs with our rucks on.  ;D

 

[Loachman]

Loachman,
thanks for the info on the combat boots. so i take it, when my dad did basic, he would have had the mk3s.

My pleasure. He may have worn them then, or at least later. What were his years of service?

Gawd, not the pilot boots!!  >

A few short years ago, we had to issue those damn things out to the troops when the dies for the MkIIIs began failing as an interim measure. They suck for the Army!! The old chevron pattern on them was/is solid on the edge of the sole ... leaving no room for the mud/water to squish out the sides of the soles - an essential feature for an Army guy/gal. Ours may collect rocks, but at least they let the mud out the sides so we weren't walking (or falling) on mud laden cushions or hydroplaning while traipsing through puddles and ditchs with our rucks on.  ;D

Exactly the same soles as the Mark Is and IIs. Not good at all, and they wore away quickly as well.

I never bothered with them, and stuck with the Mark IIIs until switching to Magnums.

 

[naughty15tracy]

he served from nov 82 to just after the first gulf war. he servived several peace keeping  tours, a cold war, and a heated war and than as he is walking home from the corner store, gets smacked by a drunk driver. he would have found that funny.

 

[Greymatters]

Thanks guys. the 4 things i am still looking at getting are: Military map (c.f.s. naniamo from 1983 +/- 1 or 2 years) would be the best or c.f.b. wainwright from 1985, other than that any military map that was used my a foot soldier and is folded to fit his/her pocket),

1. field pay from the early 80s to mid 80s; how much and what denomination was it in? what pocket did they carry their wallet, keys, lighter, smokes, gum, and what ever in? even though i picked up some grey wool socks, i am not sure if they are the actual style used so if anyone can tell me about them or if you have a pic of them that would be cool, how do you ladder lace your boots, or how did they lace combat boots? what should dose the lanyard go on and what would be the normal thing attached to it? any idea where i can find original combat name tape (i found a set of ones very simular but still off a bit)? i am assuming this, but underwear is just the ones you buy at the canex/sears, same with bras (taking it that females warn them)? i think that is it for the basic gear, the only other thing i am woundering is how would you pack all your gear for going over seas. oh, and by the way, my dad used to have the p53 pattern gear (i think it was called p53 gear, the stuff from the 1950s) because he said the velcro stuff from the 1960s was , well lets just say, he hated it. i have been looking on tebay for the 1950s gear and for the map, but very little have been on there for web gear and no old military maps from the 1980s ever show up on ebay. i would probably find getting an fnc1 easier than finding a map. thanks for all the help guys.

Ref the maps, I will have to dig out my map box, but I believe I have Wainwright and Rocky Point for around 1985-1987.  Will have to check this weekend to make sure, if you can wait.  Might also have some Cyprus maps from 1988 if those are of interest.  Do you have a mailing address you can PM me?

Ref the rest, wow, some pretty detailed questions there...

 

[naughty15tracy]

the maps i would be looking at the most are: c.f.s. naniamo 1983 (other years are ok, but 1983 is best), c.f.b. wainwright 1985 (1985 is best, but 1 from about this time is ok as long as it shows all the old buildings and not the new ones), c.f.b. cornwallis 1985 or 1986, c.f.s. Baldy Hughes 1970s to 1980s, and c.f.b. Griesbach 1970s to 1980s. they hold emportance to my dad's military past. other than that, fort lewis 1983 or 1984, or any of the cold war period canadian forces bases in canada, specialy army bases. c.f.s. esquimalt 1970s to 1985 would be cool. thanks.

 

[Danjanou]

For Canadian Scottish insignia you're best bet would be to contact the unit

http://www.canadianscottishregiment.ca/

or Regimental Association

http://csrassociation.homestead.com/

As you've inferred this display is to honour your father, I'm sure someone would be willing to help out. They may also be able to put you in contact with some of the members of the Regimental family who knew him.

Alternatively eBay seems to have capbadges

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Canadian-Scottish-QC-Cap-Badge-Canada-/390172939353?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item5ad81e9459

Balmorals at that time were to have been the normal khaki OD, or possibly the newer issued dark green with same coloured Tourrie. Some Highland units began switching over in the later 1980's IIRC.

 

[naughty15tracy]

Ref the maps, I will have to dig out my map box, but I believe I have Wainwright and Rocky Point for around 1985-1987.  Will have to check this weekend to make sure, if you can wait.  Might also have some Cyprus maps from 1988 if those are of interest.  Do you have a mailing address you can PM me?

Ref the rest, wow, some pretty detailed questions there...

 

[naughty15tracy]

what would a females measurements be for her to be issued regular/medium combat uniform? p.s. sorry for the bad spelling

 

[armyvern]

Tracy,

Edit your post and remove your email addy from it.

PM it to him.

You'll be hit up by every spammer in the world posting it on the site like that. <--- Said in my best "mom" voice.