Navy to potentially create training ships on great lakes

[Kirkhill]

The new CCGS BAY CLASS are da bomb, with larger capacity, sink proof rolling capacity, and YES, they would work well, but the CCG Senior Management have fought for years to stay away from Military Style Operations, unlike most of the worlds Coast Guards have adopted, working with their military navies. The CCG Ships Officers (SO) want to stay Civilian, unlike most of their newer Ships Crew (SC) who want to be like the US Coast Guard, armed and uniformed like Sailors, not Merchant Mariners. I can see the CCG will lose Recruiting and Attraction, and will be a big win for the RCN with expanded roles into Central Canadian Rivers and Great Lakes.

These ones?

Severn-class lifeboat (Canada) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Severn-class lifeboat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[OldSolduer]

Further to the discussion about sea states and depths ....

Additional concept

Sea room.

In the middle of the Atlantic you don't have to worry about bumping into stuff when you are blown off course.

At least, so I'm told.

RMS Titanic enters the chat.....

 

[Master Jack Carter]

Yes, that’s actually the class I meant to reference, rather than the Capes. I believe they’re predominantly made at Hike and Forillon and so shouldn’t be a drag on any of the big boys to try and fit into their build schedules. Can you speak to their seakeeping in big water, like North Atlantic for example?

As the name suggests, they are great for hanging around the Bays around our Coastlines on the Pacific, with limited use in the Juan De Fuca, Haro, and Georgian Strait. I only got to ride in one of the first ones we took delivery of around Vancouver Island. North Atlantic, especially in the winter months is some rough stuff. You would have to ask one of the CCG Stations on Newfoundland that have been given the new Bay Class for the real meal deal on how they operate in the Atlantic in the rough stuff.

 

[Master Jack Carter]

I think this is the second time you have made reference to the Super Corvettes.

My Father-in-law served as a stoker in corvettes on both coasts.

IIRC Canada's first frigates, the 2000 tonne Rivers, were originally called "twin screw corvettes".

Yeah, our new incoming Class replacing the Kingston Class MCDV's are Super Corvettes. Like Super Hornets, Super Puma's, Upgraded and enhanced platforms usually get a Super thrown into the name, often times because they make the platform Super-ior over the original design. I was one of the hundreds of thousands of supporters of Canada replacing our CF-18 Hornets with the Boeing F/A 18 E & F Super Hornets. They are everything our pilots have used since the 1980's but Super Superior in capabilities. The incoming Super Corvettes will be able to go anywhere in the world, except through Arctic Waters during Ice Periods, are very stealth looking and are being called a Generation 5.0 Ship because of the Stealth Capacity. Above Sea Ships are starting to become as stealthy on the water as Subs are under water.

 

[Underway]

No. And contrary to popular belief, lake Winnipeg, while large, is very shallow and with large swaths not very navigable by ships with a good draft. Ask the Coast Guard rescue unit there and they'll tell you.

On lake Ontario, the best place is Hamilton. HMCS STAR is located at what used to be the RCN's (pre-unification) Great Lakes Training Center. Good berthing facilities and lots of room to build a residence or something akin to it, especially if the RCN kicks out the Army that "invaded" the place after unification. You could also build a shore training facility equal to the one in Quebec City and instantly double the simulators/ops room training facilities available to East Coast reserve units.

Getting rid of the army would be hard. They have some nice new vehicle bays there for all the local army maint. However if one were planning the entire army and navy's infrastructure needs an overhaul. James St. Armouries and the old Great Lakes Training Centre should either be torn down of fully renovated.

Kingston is a good place for Training vessels. 1000 Islands is an excellent place to train on navigation, with plenty of places to get fixes, tight transits and lots of random civilian traffic to deal with contacts.

Isn't Haida birthed there ? Does that 1960s infrastructure still exist and is it maintained ?

Never been to Star, but I know it was a hub for preunification RCNR.

Haida is berthed just outside the base, as it has to be accessible to the public as a National Park. Last I saw them (about ten years ago) the facilities inside the base were quite sufficient to berth the RHIbs and four Orca's (two per berth). They probably need upgrading for electrical, steam (do the Orca's need steam connection?) and communication, but it shouldn't be that hard to do.

Since Haida is birthed there isn't as much jetty space or parking availability as there used to be. The Med and Supply Coy building (old GLTC) needs to be torn down and replaced. Getting pretty old in there. And those units should probably be moved.

Growth is constrained now, as they are building condos on the west side of the base, Hamilton Harbour commission owns the east side (and they are doing quite well I'm told, jetties are always bustling), and the park to the south stops growth that way.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Since Haida is birthed there isn't as much jetty space or parking availability as there used to be.

Growth is constrained now, as they are building condos on the west side of the base, Hamilton Harbour commission owns the east side (and they are doing quite well I'm told, jetties are always bustling), and the park to the south stops growth that way.

Behind Haida, along the wharfage that borders the base, you still have 120 linear meters of space available. Right now the boats jetty is smack in the middle. Move it the East end and use, maybe, 30 meters for it. That leaves you with 90 meters to park four 35 meters vessels in two nests of two. It is more than sufficient.

Kingston is a good place for Training vessels. 1000 Islands is an excellent place to train on navigation, with plenty of places to get fixes, tight transits and lots of random civilian traffic to deal with contacts.

You are making the same mistake as others: You are looking at NRU Orca's as if they were there for the same purpose as the ones attached to VENTURE. They would not - should not - be so. They are not there to train unqualified officers in navigation and basic watchkeeping, but to take trained personnel (officers and all trades) and train them (or keep up their training) in the various team requirements that make a crew ready for operations.

P.S. I agree that the old GLTC has got to go before anything bad happens (anyone remember what happened to the old STAR WWII building?). That's where I would want to build the new reserve trainers and the residence.

P.S.S. I also agree that the James Street Armoury has to go. But will the RHLI's Mafia (I mean Regie) ever agree to any modification to the "home of the regiment"?

 

[Baz]

If the RCN and NTOG Operators are working in the Great Lakes and St Lawrecne River, they will be fully equipped no different than doing an OPERATION CARIBBE Mission.

Fortunately, that's not a decision either the RCN or NTOG gets to make. That decision is made by the Government on behalf of the People of Canada.

As one of those "people," I'd prefer that was left to the RCMP and CBSA, given that is literally their job. I don't beleive the current situation warrants the CF being used as an Aid to the Civil Power.

As an aside, your colorful description of why NTOG wants to do that gives me no confidence that they should.