NCM, Officer, and getting the career you want.

[Latrine2]

Hello,

I have recently applied to the Forces at a time when just one of my pool of desired Officer and NCM careers is open - Infantry Soldier. That said, in speaking to the recruiters as we completed my application the issue of Officer careers came up and it has raised a question or two about what to do in this situation.

The trouble with wanting to apply for Officer is that there are no openings right now. The questions I have for the Army.ca community stem from this issue. The Recruiting team suggested inquiring about Officer careers during my interview in approximately 1 month (est) to see if there are openings.

Given the unpredictable nature of openings in the CF, would it be better to withdraw the current application and re-apply when an Infantry Officer position becomes available? Or would it be best to keep the application current and inquire in, say, 30 days from now?

Another issue that came up is leading in the Infantry Soldier role. One of the Recruiters and I were talking about the transition from Infantry Soldier to Officer and he quoted 12-15 years of service to make the leap. Is this figure accurate? Would one be able to, say, enlist for 3 years as Infantry Soldier and re-apply at the end of the 3 for Infantry Officer?

Any information will be of value, thank you.

iper: :threat:

 

[1feral1]

Hello,

I know I bring a lot to the table even for Infantry.

Please elaborate more on this?

Thanks, and welcome to the site.

OWDU

 

[Greymatters]

Given the unpredictable nature of openings in the CF, would it be better to withdraw the current application and re-apply when an Infantry Officer position becomes available? Or would it be best to keep the application current and inquire in, say, 30 days from now?

This is something you should be deciding based on your own career aspirations - do you want to join up as one of the ranks or wait a bit longer and join as an officer. 

Another issue that came up is leading in the Infantry Soldier role. One of the Recruiters and I were talking about the transition from Infantry Soldier to Officer and he quoted 12-15 years of service to make the leap. Is this figure accurate? Would one be able to, say, enlist for 3 years as Infantry Soldier and re-apply at the end of the 3 for Infantry Officer?

There are a lot of prerequisites for switching over after only three years and very few opportunities.  You'll always lose out to someone with more time in and more proven experience.  Almost every NCO I knew who transferred to officer had at least ten years of service and a degree under their belt.   

 

[tristismilitis]

The trouble with wanting to apply for Officer is that there are no openings right now. The questions I have for the Army.ca community stem from this issue. The Recruiting team suggested inquiring about Officer careers during my interview in approximately 1 month (est) to see if there are openings.

Given the unpredictable nature of openings in the CF, would it be better to withdraw the current application and re-apply when an Infantry Officer position becomes available? Or would it be best to keep the application current and inquire in, say, 30 days from now?

I'm wondering if they told you to inquire at your interview because there will be more information after 1 April regarding which trades are open for the new fiscal year, although I do agree with greymatters, it is a personal choice once you have all the information you need to make a decision.

Another issue that came up is leading in the Infantry Soldier role. One of the Recruiters and I were talking about the transition from Infantry Soldier to Officer and he quoted 12-15 years of service to make the leap. Is this figure accurate? Would one be able to, say, enlist for 3 years as Infantry Soldier and re-apply at the end of the 3 for Infantry Officer?

There are a lot of prerequisites for switching over after only three years and very few opportunities.  You'll always lose out to someone with more time in and more proven experience.  Almost every NCO I knew who transferred to officer had at least ten years of service and a degree under their belt.   

Right again.
To commission from the ranks there are a number of programs that are available but they all take time. Minimum requirements would be very difficult to meet in only 3 years of NCM service unless you already possess a degree that is applicable to the officer trade you want and even then the chances are not good as there are candidates that would be more desirable based on longer service (rank, number of evals they have, military courses, exercises, tours etc).

If you don’t have a completed degree there are also programs you can apply for as a NCM but these are equally if not more competitive as it is for a paid (wage and tuition) seat in university and again the prerequisites usually take longer than 3-4 years to meet, due in part to the fact that once you are at a Battalion or Regiment as a NCM you will have a job that requires your full attention, otherwise you won’t merit high enough to get the needed recommendations to apply for the program.

A few examples to illustrate timelines:

It took me 6 years of reg force service (I had 3 of class B reserve service prior to that) to get all the prerequisites to apply for university/commssioning, between taskings and deployments and all the other things that crop up in life. It will still be another 2 years or so before I am fully employed in my new trade and I have been at university for 3 years now. Total time=10+ years (commission next year)

In the 10 year span from when I first transferred to the reg force a colleague who had a degree before joining as a NCM was turned down twice for commissioning from the ranks, the first time (3-4 year mark) they said she didn’t have enough time in to merit, the second time (at the eight year mark) she merited second in Canada, but there was only one position available in the trade she wanted. Total time=10 years and still no commission.

Another friend, during this same time period (had a portion of her degree) joined as an officer through ROTP from civvy street, went through school/training and released a few years ago after deciding it wasn’t her thing. Total time= less than 5 years of service, all in an officer trade.

I believe gaining experience as a NCM can be priceless for future officers, but it’s not a fast route in the majority of cases.

Good luck!

 

[Latrine2]

I'm wondering if they told you to inquire at your interview because there will be more information after 1 April regarding which trades are open for the new fiscal year, although I do agree with greymatters, it is a personal choice once you have all the information you need to make a decision.


I believe gaining experience as a NCM can be priceless for future officers, but it’s not a fast route in the majority of cases.

Good luck!

I believe you are right about your first point.  My concern may be unfounded - is there any difference and / or advantage to having an application in prior to the April 1st announcements versus applying once available?

The second question is about availability - can anyone speak as to how often Officer opportunities in a specific role become available?

Gaining experience in the front line is something I highly value as well. Having seen the Basic Up and Combat School footage and the Combat Camera footage available, the front-line Officers really do seem to be embedded more than removed from their troops though, so I believe there is plenty of exposure to the NCM role for Officers. But when the Recruiter quoted 12-15 years it gave me pause. That, versus ~ 2 years for Direct Entry, is something I have to consider when planning a career with the Forces.

Thank you for your feedback so far folks.

 

[Michael OLeary]

The second question is about availability - can anyone speak as to how often Officer opportunities in a specific role become available?

Right now, no-one knows.  Even the Recruiters will only have their current numbers, whenever they are released, that they can be relatively sure of.  The recruiting freeze in the last six months was a surprise and I suspect no-one will bet on any predictable pattern for a while.

The bottom line: get your application in the lineup now, and just wait patiently like everyone else. Work on things that might make you even more competitive and keep the Recruiting Centre updated when you do add to your resume.

 

[Latrine2]

The bottom line: get your application in the lineup now, and just wait patiently like everyone else. Work on things that might make you even more competitive and keep the Recruiting Centre updated when you do add to your resume.

Awesome idea, and one I have been thinking about. Can you suggest training that would help? Currently I'm doing a "Boot Camp" fitness class that is going to be wiping me out 2 times a week and am looking for a running club to work up the Cardio as well.

Beyond this, what came to mind was First Aid, Shooting / Hunting certificates. Beyond this any other suggestions would be fantastic.

 

[PMedMoe]

Beyond this, what came to mind was First Aid, Shooting / Hunting certificates. Beyond this any other suggestions would be fantastic.

They'll teach you that on basic training.

 

[TimBit]

They'll teach you that on basic training.

Hem Hunting they won't. Thank God there is quite a difference b/w hunting goose (hmm... my favorite) and... man?  ;D

But PMedMoe is right, they'll teach you all you need to know about shooting a rifle in the forces. Don't waste your money getting hunter's license unless you plan to hunt... which might in fact be a great way to fill the time when you get sent to Petawawa or bug-land a.k.a. Oromocto.

 

[tristismilitis]

Can't think of any specific training, but I know volunteer hours at somewhere worthwhile is always an asset on an application if you have some free time to donate. Make sure it's somewhere that will provide you with a written record of the hours you log. My favorite place is the humane society/SPCA because it has lots of benefits: gives back to the community, awesome PT running the dogs around outside, worked well with my erratic schedule and it provided me with a great reference.