Nearly 4,500 Canadian Armed Forces members, families waiting for military housing

[dimsum]

Nearly 4,500 Canadian Armed Forces members, families waiting for military housing

OTTAWA - Thousands of Canadian Armed Forces members and their families across the country are waiting for military housing, according to the Departmen...

www.thestar.com

 

[FJAG]

Let's see now:

- Last time I looked banks and CHMC still lend money;

- Soldiers still get regular paychecks.

- Tradesmen still build houses.

- Pay offices can still make deductions from pay accounts for rental payments.

Any landlord worth his salt would love to build condos or whatever for folks that have guaranteed incomes and are subject to military discipline to keep their quarters clean and undamaged and therefore are able to quickly repay the mortgages and start getting healthy returns on investments.

The solution is dead simple. The path to the solution is paved by bureaucracy and unnecessary complications. I have a hard time generating any sympathy for the CAF - the families, yes, the CAF, no.

 

[Quirky]

If we shut off the lights and closed the doors for good tomorrow, would Canadians even notice, or care?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

If we shut off the lights and closed the doors for good tomorrow, would Canadians even notice, or care?

Only when the overtime bills come in for all the civilians doing dom ops.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If we shut off the lights and closed the doors for good tomorrow, would Canadians even notice, or care?

Based on what we're seeing in the Maritimes after the hurricane, civilians can't see enough of us.

 

[MilEME09]

Really this problem could be solved tomorrow if there was the political will. Don't forget we are short thousands of recruits, meaning this problem is probably worse. Design cookie cutter apartment style housing or row houses for married couples, then prefab it as much as possible at several facilities. Transport it to site and assemble. We could solve this in a couple years.

 

[CBH99]

Is it the CFHA that ultimately decides or approves of military housing being built? The base commander? Someone in Ottawa?

I agree with FJAG’s point - not just in regards to this issue, but many that fall with the federal government.

A simple solution ends up being extremely expensive, slow, and cumbersome because the road to anywhere is littered with needless bureaucracy & red tape that everybody agree’s is a hindrance, yet still exists for some reason.

There are also a ton of smaller home-builders that do a great job, if not better job, than the big homebuilding companies who have the influence to get the big neighbourhood contracts. Award the projects to them.

The smaller companies have an opportunity to scale. More employment in the area. Rents possibly come down. One less thing affecting recruiting & retainment, and the military can regain some of its appeal of being a place to learn unique skills, have unique adventures, make the world a better place, and be able to save some money while living affordably.


132 units of the proposed 1300? C’mon CFHA, it doesn’t take a math whiz to see that’s a really low percentage…

 

[dapaterson]

Current building costs are up about 20% from historical norms (after projected inflation). Jobs are being tendered with no bids. Workforce isn't there.

And we long ago left the world where a single income family with introductory wages can buy a home - military or not.

 

[McG]

Let's see now:

- Last time I looked banks and CHMC still lend money;

- Soldiers still get regular paychecks.

- Tradesmen still build houses.

- Pay offices can still make deductions from pay accounts for rental payments.

Any landlord worth his salt would love to build condos or whatever for folks that have guaranteed incomes and are subject to military discipline to keep their quarters clean and undamaged and therefore are able to quickly repay the mortgages and start getting healthy returns on investments.

The solution is dead simple. The path to the solution is paved by bureaucracy and unnecessary complications. I have a hard time generating any sympathy for the CAF - the families, yes, the CAF, no.

In a lot of Canadian markets, the house that was $450k at the start of COVID is now $900k. Other Canadian markets sort of stayed stagnant. I know people who cannot get an affordable mortgage for a house to fit their families (depending on start & end locations of the posting message). The builders are already busy with new construction & are not going to offer charity deals to CAF members; there are plenty of other buyers.

 

[KevinB]

Current building costs are up about 20% from historical norms (after projected inflation). Jobs are being tendered with no bids. Workforce isn't there.

And we long ago left the world where a single income family with introductory wages can buy a home - military or not.

Which is why I could never figure out why the CAF didn’t keep a lot of the PMQ’s and Barracks.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Which is why I could never figure out why the CAF didn’t keep a lot of the PMQ’s and Barracks.

But, but, MBAs said to get rid of them! Public servants got promoted!

 

[KevinB]

But, but, MBAs said to get rid of them! Public servants got promoted!

The sooner folks realize that the CAF isn’t a business the better…

 

[FSTO]

Which is why I could never figure out why the CAF didn’t keep a lot of the PMQ’s and Barracks.

Because developers lobbied the government to both get rid of PMQs and stop CAF members paying lower than local rates for rental of the remaining PMQs.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The sooner folks realize that the CAF isn’t a business the better…

You should try working in Logistics.

 

[childs56]

Let's see now:

- Last time I looked banks and CHMC still lend money;

- Soldiers still get regular paychecks.

- Tradesmen still build houses.

- Pay offices can still make deductions from pay accounts for rental payments.

Any landlord worth his salt would love to build condos or whatever for folks that have guaranteed incomes and are subject to military discipline to keep their quarters clean and undamaged and therefore are able to quickly repay the mortgages and start getting healthy returns on investments.

There are not many landlords out there who will invest in that. Or else they would. They know the pay Military makes and it limits them to what they can charge.
Overall this is a pretty ignorant comment in my opinion.
Lets say the average Corporal makes $5554 a month. Thats $66,600 a year base salary. That affords a person a $333,300 mortgage. If your in the Victoria area that might get you a 1 bedroom apartment hopefully.
If your in Edmonton you might find a place for that, It seems the further East you go the better off you might be. Once factor in taxes and such it looks pretty grim for many.
Tradesmen do not work for free, and developers work for 40-60% profit margins. For many in the Military leaves things out of reach.

The Senior Officer Corps needs to start pulling their heads out of the butts and realizing the issue is looking them in the mirror. They need more base housing, not based on local market price, but based on Affordability for its members.
When I was in Cold lake the house prices kept climbing, by the time I had money in the bank to buy the prices jumped up another $100,000. The conversation I had with My CO was if the Military would do low interest loans for housing of its members it would make more people able to stay and want to stay.
Even the PMQ rents were insane, not to mention the heating cost. But housing was short and cost were high. No real chance to make overtime so it was a loosing situation for many.

The solution is dead simple. The path to the solution is paved by bureaucracy and unnecessary complications. I have a hard time generating any sympathy for the CAF - the families, yes, the CAF, no.

 

[GR66]

There are not many landlords out there who will invest in that. Or else they would. They know the pay Military makes and it limits them to what they can charge.
Overall this is a pretty ignorant comment in my opinion.
Lets say the average Corporal makes $5554 a month. Thats $66,600 a year base salary. That affords a person a $333,300 mortgage. If your in the Victoria area that might get you a 1 bedroom apartment hopefully.
If your in Edmonton you might find a place for that, It seems the further East you go the better off you might be. Once factor in taxes and such it looks pretty grim for many.
Tradesmen do not work for free, and developers work for 40-60% profit margins. For many in the Military leaves things out of reach.

The Senior Officer Corps needs to start pulling their heads out of the butts and realizing the issue is looking them in the mirror. They need more base housing, not based on local market price, but based on Affordability for its members.
When I was in Cold lake the house prices kept climbing, by the time I had money in the bank to buy the prices jumped up another $100,000. The conversation I had with My CO was if the Military would do low interest loans for housing of its members it would make more people able to stay and want to stay.
Even the PMQ rents were insane, not to mention the heating cost. But housing was short and cost were high. No real chance to make overtime so it was a loosing situation for many.

Treasury Board enters the conversation.

Subsidized housing would have to be a taxable benefit to members.

 

[Quirky]

Subsidized housing would have to be a taxable benefit to members.

Of course it would, this is Canada after all.

It would be far too easy to base PMQ rent on rank, or offer a low-interest CAF-only mortgage rate, or offer 100% tax-free home equity assistance, or cut income tax for CAF members, or, or etc etc. There are plenty of ways to boost retention and recruitment, but frankly the GAF factor is not there.

 

[FSTO]

Treasury Board enters the conversation.

Subsidized housing would have to be a taxable benefit to members.

Frack TB, tell those F-tards to go poop in their fist.

I feel better now.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The problem is on issues like this, financial, the TBS trumps all.

What need is CAF leadership to empower/embolden our elected leaders to pass some legislation or regulation that protects the CAF and its members from certain TBS policies. We did it to get non taxed deployments with CRA; lets not stop there.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Which is why I could never figure out why the CAF didn’t keep a lot of the PMQ’s and Barracks.

As was stated above, money.

Not just the value of the land they either sold off to CLC or to other developers, or repurposed for other infrastructure projects; it also is so much more cheaper maintaining buildings that no longer exist.

Kingston saw 35 percent of its PMQ holdings divested because the cost of maintaining was too high (as they were rotting off their footings). There was no new construction to replace them. The belief was that the cheap housing market would last forever and that the vacancy rate in Kingston would stay reasonable. This was in 2007 when the decision was made.

15 years later, Kingston has one of the most volatile housing markets in Ontario, the lowest vacancy rate in Ontario, and not a single PMQ under construction. There are 300 pers on a Pri 1 list for Qs after APS22. Also, CFSMI and PSTC have brand new builds on the land where the Qs were.

But hey, at least folks have new buildings to work in while they sleep in their cars.