Neck pain a debilitating problem for RCAF helicopter pilots

[daftandbarmy]

Neck pain a debilitating problem for RCAF helicopter pilots


The Canadian military is looking for ways to reduce the number of neck injuries seen in helicopter pilots, which is attributed partly to heavy equipment. But there is no quick fix for the costly concern.


https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/05/06/neck-pain-a-debilitating-problem-for-rcaf-helicopter-pilots.html

 

[SeaKingTacco]

This is a fairly big deal and it is not just Griffon pilots who are affected.

I have seen very talented Pilots, ACSOs, and AESOPs rendered medically unable to continue flying because of neck injuries. I myself have had close calls on injury, hanging out the side of a Sea King at night with NVGs on, trying to do utility work.

 

[Loachman]

Flight Engineers are vulnerable, too - they sit on the crappy rag-and-tube seats,  move around the cabin a lot bent over or on their knees, lean out, lie on the floor to look underneath, and slide underneath (while on the ground) to hook up slung loads.

Brian Wicks was one of the Instructors on my Helicopter Instructor Course.

 

[SupersonicMax]

We have the same issues for similar reasons in fighter cockpits: heavy helmets, NVG and high-G.  Some almost died from it, some were grounded for life, some just gave up.

 

[daftandbarmy]

It's an infantry problem too, as discussed here: https://www.nap.edu/read/5436/chapter/13#212

But, unless you're parachuting, I'm guessing that the G forces involved are likely much less than in any kind of flying.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

We have the same issues for similar reasons in fighter cockpits: heavy helmets, NVG and high-G.  Some almost died from it, some were grounded for life, some just gave up.

We had one of your guys come to fly Sea Kings after taking a neck injury on Hornets.  He is an awesome guy, but, funnily enough, the vibration in a helicopter did not improve things for his neck.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Has this become a greater problem in recent years than in years past?  By recent, I mean five, ten, fifteen, even twenty years.  I recall the issue being raised as something to prep for when I did my aeromedevac course a long, long, long time ago as well as seeing studies about it and it being mentioned by a couple of syndicate mates at Staff School (they were fighter pilots and our DS was a Hel type) in the mid 1980s.  It was even under close study by the US Army and Navy in the 80s/90s - two of my classmates at OAC at Fort Sam in 1990, one an Airevac pilot and the other an aerospace physiologist had a connection to studies being done out of Rucker at that time.  There was, supposedly, an exercise program that was to be implemented in the CF (1990s?).  Was this imposed or was it something that was only suggested as "available" to pilots?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Has this become a greater problem in recent years than in years past?  By recent, I mean five, ten, fifteen, even twenty years.  I recall the issue being raised as something to prep for when I did my aeromedevac course a long, long, long time ago as well as seeing studies about it and it being mentioned by a couple of syndicate mates at Staff School (they were fighter pilots and our DS was a Hel type) in the mid 1980s.  It was even under close study by the US Army and Navy in the 80s/90s - two of my classmates at OAC at Fort Sam in 1990, one an Airevac pilot and the other an aerospace physiologist had a connection to studies being done out of Rucker at that time.  There was, supposedly, an exercise program that was to be implemented in the CF (1990s?).  Was this imposed or was it something that was only suggested as "available" to pilots?

My guess is, as with most issues in the HR space these days, there are just not enough people compared to the glory days of the Baby Boom/Busters where we could pour loads of folks into the funnel knowing we would break a bunch of them ....

 

[Jarnhamar]

I tried to get issued nvg counter weights.  Big fat no.

 

[Good2Golf]

Has this become a greater problem in recent years than in years past?  By recent, I mean five, ten, fifteen, even twenty years.  I recall the issue being raised as something to prep for when I did my aeromedevac course a long, long, long time ago as well as seeing studies about it and it being mentioned by a couple of syndicate mates at Staff School (they were fighter pilots and our DS was a Hel type) in the mid 1980s.  It was even under close study by the US Army and Navy in the 80s/90s - two of my classmates at OAC at Fort Sam in 1990, one an Airevac pilot and the other an aerospace physiologist had a connection to studies being done out of Rucker at that time.  There was, supposedly, an exercise program that was to be implemented in the CF (1990s?).  Was this imposed or was it something that was only suggested as "available" to pilots?

Perhaps in isolated locations, but I had a targeted exercise program recommended to my by the Flight Surgeon back in the early-90s.  It was described to me that the best treatment was proactive condition, based greatly on the exercises that wrestlers do to strengthen neck muscles.  I always flew with a full 450gm counterweight, I preferred balance over weight.  Others flew with less (or no) counter-weight but a secondary 'anti-rotation' chin strap to keep the helmet from rotating forward.  That seemed to lead to more problems for many (sore jaw, still sore neck).

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Do Tyson Neck Rolls:

https://youtu.be/7IXm3VumEHE

Iron Mike was a beast from these and had 20.5 inch neck.  Gave him what was essentially a plate of armour around his jaw line and spine that made him impossible to knock out.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Do Tyson Neck Rolls:

https://youtu.be/7IXm3VumEHE

Iron Mike was a beast from these and had 20.5 inch neck.  Gave him what was essentially a plate of armour around his jaw line and spine that made him impossible to knock out.

In my dim and distant past I was, amongst other things, a wrestler. 'Working on your neck' in a way that got good results took ages, and ages, and was a continuous, daily process. In wrestling, the strength requirements for your neck were related mainly to being able to push the other guy around after you had 'shot in' on his legs, so you could get behind him and gain control; a lateral movement related strength requirement without the need to account for G forces.

I'd find it hard to believe that anyone with a 'real job', like busy aircrew, could find enough time to build up and maintain their neck muscles to an extent that it would account for the effects of heavy, unbalanced headgear during long term wear and tear, or high G forces.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

In my dim and distant past I was, amongst other things, a wrestler. 'Working on your neck' in a way that got good results took ages, and ages, and was a continuous, daily process. In wrestling, the strength requirements for your neck were related mainly to being able to push the other guy around after you had 'shot in' on his legs, so you could get behind him and gain control; a lateral movement related strength requirement without the need to account for G forces.

I'd find it hard to believe that anyone with a 'real job', like busy aircrew, could find enough time to build up and maintain their neck muscles to an extent that it would account for the effects of heavy, unbalanced headgear during long term wear and tear, or high G forces.

The part in yellow is all too true D&B which is why the Military needs to get a far better grip of strength training and physical fitness than they presently have.  It literally takes years to build elite level physical strength and the gains that took years to build erode quickly in a matter of months without training. 

I personally think all Military Members should do a minimum of two training sessions a week that focus purely on strength.  Ideally a person would do three strength sessions a week but gains can still be made, albeit at a slower rate, with only two sessions.

 

[GAP]

Two observations....

Would not the same effects be felt by the infantry man/woman what with the helmet, NVG, etc....?

Have they ever approached the the idea of the shoulders/back muscles taking some of the strain but leaving the flexability?

 

[Strike]

Has this become a greater problem in recent years than in years past?  By recent, I mean five, ten, fifteen, even twenty years.  I recall the issue being raised as something to prep for when I did my aeromedevac course a long, long, long time ago as well as seeing studies about it and it being mentioned by a couple of syndicate mates at Staff School (they were fighter pilots and our DS was a Hel type) in the mid 1980s.  It was even under close study by the US Army and Navy in the 80s/90s - two of my classmates at OAC at Fort Sam in 1990, one an Airevac pilot and the other an aerospace physiologist had a connection to studies being done out of Rucker at that time.  There was, supposedly, an exercise program that was to be implemented in the CF (1990s?).  Was this imposed or was it something that was only suggested as "available" to pilots?

 

[Retired and Broken]

Two observations....

Would not the same effects be felt by the infantry man/woman what with the helmet, NVG, etc....?

Have they ever approached the the idea of the shoulders/back muscles taking some of the strain but leaving the flexability?

Aircrew wears a helmet way more consistently and for longer periods than an infanteer so my guess would be no. Suppose there arealways exceptions though.

 

[GAP]

Aircrew wears a helmet way more consistently and for longer periods than an infanteer so my guess would be no. Suppose there arealways exceptions though.

You have never ground pounded have you...

 

[Loch Sloy!]

I tried to get issued nvg counter weights.  Big fat no.

I use a strobe pouch on the back of my helmet with an MS200 in there when wearing night vision equipment. In a pinch I've also used a box of clipped C7 ammo and once even a flat rock jammed under my helmet band. A counter-weight makes a HUGE difference.

Also since consistently following a weight lifting program (rather than just cross-fit) I've had way less neck issues.

 

[Retired and Broken]

You have never ground pounded have you...

Sure have. Half my career was with 2VP. The other half was with SAR.

 

[Strike]

You have never ground pounded have you...

The difference being that flying aircrew are sitting in a confined space for 2-6 hours (if not more depending on the msn and stby posture) with very little, if any chance, to move and stretch. So it tends to exacerbate any stress that is already being put on the muscles.  Add in the bad posture that we ALL have when we fly (even the FEs when they're sitting in the back) and it's a recipe for a shortened career.  Heck, imagine laying on your stomach with your head hanging out the door for most of a slinging flight, at night, with NVGs.  It is an unnatural position to hold for any amount of time and there is nothing that it can be compared to on the Army side.

No one is disputing that the ground guys aren't dealing with similar issues, but you certainly aren't carrying that gear (helmet, HUD*, NVGs* counterweight*) every single day of your career, whether deployed or not.  Aircrew have to wear that every day that they are flying which, for some, is Monday to Friday more than once a day.

*Equipment is dependent on msn and time of day flown obviously.