New Dress Regs 🤣

[Eye In The Sky]

Of course, being a more technical trade than Infantry, they're likely known as 'schematics'

COIs; Clothing Operating Instructions.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Which is exactly why I think the entire concept of Command Team is flawed and a lot of Chief's outside of the unit level i.e. Coxn/RSM aren't much in the way of value added.

When you get to what is Chief 1, you should be promoted to the rank of Lt(N)/Capt and carry on.

Or just progress CWOs in pay into the Captain bands and have them remain more effective as a professional, non-compromised, SNCO that can provide the essential, objective, experienced checks and balances to the actions of an overly career focused commander.

When we relegate our most Senior SNCOs to the role of 'advisor' or bag holder for an Officer, or merely part of a fictitious and cult of personality focused 'Command Team', we deserve what we get.

 

[Halifax Tar]

We have a culture where ignoring unpopular rules are often treated like a behavior to admire and emulate. We're a strong hierarchy based culture and ignoring dress standards and rules are two ways people try to stand out in the cool-guy hierarchy to be noticed. Sometimes it's for pure functionality purposes (rolling sleeves), sometimes it's also to cultivate a certain image (officers wearing their berets with cap badges almost over their ear like the British), sometimes it's both (cutting down the brim of floppy hats).

Driving vehicles someones not qualified for. Bringing personal weapons to a range. Some G-Wagon beers mid ex. Anecdotal but I personally see a correlation between soldiers going out of their way to ignore dress standards and those ignoring other rules.

Wait... You've witnessed people bringing personal firearms and a military run range qualification or practice ?

 

[kev994]

Which is exactly why I think the entire concept of Command Team is flawed and a lot of Chief's outside of the unit level i.e. Coxn/RSM aren't much in the way of value added.

When you get to what is Chief 1, you should be promoted to the rank of Lt(N)/Capt and carry on.

I dunno, when passing points to a group of SNCOs, “the Base Chief is losing his mind because you guys aren’t wearing your masks” seems to be more effective than “the WComd is losing his mind….” Same message, both true, anecdotally they take the former more serious.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I dunno, when passing points to a group of SNCOs, “the Base Chief is losing his mind because you guys aren’t wearing your masks” seems to be more effective than “the WComd is losing his mind….” Same message, both true, anecdotally they take the former more serious.

Because our culture sucks . Most other Militaries out there would see swift and savage justice dealt for anyone disregarding direction from a Unit Level Commander.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Because our culture sucks . Most other Militaries out there would see swift and savage justice dealt for anyone disregarding direction from a Unit Level Commander.

Agreed. We need to reestablish the line of those who hold a commissioning scroll and those who don't.

I believe a Sgt and up should be the following:

1) Example for those below in rank;
2) The vocal and passionate representative of those below in rank;
3) An unwavering provider of honesty, interpretation and understanding of situations, rules and regulations to those above and below in rank;
4) Technical expert in their field;
5) The trusted advisor for those above;
6) The applicator of decision for those above.

 

[OldSolduer]

Daily dress Stadacona; Jnr NCOs and below, operational dress. Snr NCOs and above, 3b.

In the last Reg Force unit I was in the RSM set the dress policy and it wasn't onerus. He expected every NCO to enforce it and while some did it with zeal others preferred the quiet word with the 20 year corporals who appreciated not being jacked up in front of their peers.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In the last Reg Force unit I was in the RSM set the dress policy and it wasn't onerus. He expected every NCO to enforce it and while some did it with zeal others preferred the quiet word with the 20 year corporals who appreciated not being jacked up in front of their peers.

Praise in public criticism in private. It's an excellent method.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Agreed. We need to reestablish the line of those who hold a commissioning scroll and those who don't.

I believe a Sgt and up should be the following:

1) Example for those below in rank;
2) The vocal and passionate representative of those below in rank;
3) An unwavering provider of honesty, interpretation and understanding of situations, rules and regulations to those above and below in rank;
4) Technical expert in their field;
5) The trusted advisor for those above;
6) The applicator of decision for those above.

And maintaining strict discipline e.g.,

The Cost of Poor Discipline​

The Lord Down Here: Discipline Lessons from RSM Lord MVO MBE

RSM Lord was the first RSM of 3 PARA, the first Academy Sgt Maj at Sandhurst and was senior Warrant Officer at Stalagluft 11B after his capture at Arnhem. A legendary leader and a legendary figure, here is RSM Lord's story and three pieces of advice on discipline from his life.

thearmyleader.co.uk

RSM Lord also knew the cost of poor discipline. Although he didn’t realise it at the time, he (and the 1st Parachute Brigade) felt its effect in Arnhem.

As paratroopers, RSM Lord and his soldiers were not allowed to carry marked maps. After the war, Lord came across a translation of the German war diary from the Panzer Grenadier battalion he had faced at Arnhem. It was from Sunday 17th September 1944. The first landings had been made and the German commanding officer was considering the problem every defending commander has against airborne landings – where to deploy and how to hit out to disrupt the attack when it was at its weakest. Which bridge were the British heading for? Or which airfield?

The war diary read: ‘Sunday. Battalion Headquarters. From maps found on a captured British despatch rider, we discover that the enemy has two main lines of advance; one along the railway cutting and one in the direction of the hotel to the north-west edge of Oosterbeek … To be forewarned is to be forearmed.’

RSM Lord later commented, in his speech on discipline to the Army Staff College,

“One private soldier neglected to obey an order… Who can say, by that one man disobeying an order, how many lives were lost and what it cost the 1st Parachute Brigade in their effort to get to the bridge. There you see why we stern sergeants major, the purveyors of the orders of the commanding officers, are so insistent that the orders, once issued, are intelligently obeyed to the letter.”

 

[Quirky]

You’d be surprised how this would generally land you in a small world of shite. Chief will get angry to be told someone thinks he is wrong. He’ll talk to the base Chief who, generally with little context and one side of the story, will talk to the Base Commander who, with even less context, will talk with the Sqn CO who will have a one way conversation with you.

That's, in my opinion, some chicken level of leadership if the Chief isn't an adult and has to go crying to mom/dad at the Wing. Are they incapable of handling it on their own? It was no different when my Sgt told me that my WO thought my hair was getting too long. "you tell him that I told you to tell him that his hair is too long".

 

[Halifax Tar]

And maintaining strict discipline e.g.,

The Cost of Poor Discipline​

The Lord Down Here: Discipline Lessons from RSM Lord MVO MBE

RSM Lord was the first RSM of 3 PARA, the first Academy Sgt Maj at Sandhurst and was senior Warrant Officer at Stalagluft 11B after his capture at Arnhem. A legendary leader and a legendary figure, here is RSM Lord's story and three pieces of advice on discipline from his life.

thearmyleader.co.uk

RSM Lord also knew the cost of poor discipline. Although he didn’t realise it at the time, he (and the 1st Parachute Brigade) felt its effect in Arnhem.

As paratroopers, RSM Lord and his soldiers were not allowed to carry marked maps. After the war, Lord came across a translation of the German war diary from the Panzer Grenadier battalion he had faced at Arnhem. It was from Sunday 17th September 1944. The first landings had been made and the German commanding officer was considering the problem every defending commander has against airborne landings – where to deploy and how to hit out to disrupt the attack when it was at its weakest. Which bridge were the British heading for? Or which airfield?

The war diary read: ‘Sunday. Battalion Headquarters. From maps found on a captured British despatch rider, we discover that the enemy has two main lines of advance; one along the railway cutting and one in the direction of the hotel to the north-west edge of Oosterbeek … To be forewarned is to be forearmed.’

RSM Lord later commented, in his speech on discipline to the Army Staff College,

Big fan. Truly an example.

My most influential Chiefs were the ones who were firm, unrelenting and consistent in sheep dogging me as a young sailor. These were also the most fierce and compassionate representatives of those in their charge.

 

[kev994]

That's, in my opinion, some chicken level of leadership if the Chief isn't an adult and has to go crying to mom/dad at the Wing. Are they incapable of handling it on their own? It was no different when my Sgt told me that my WO thought my hair was getting too long. "you tell him that I told you to tell him that his hair is too long".

As a young Capt I got a stern talking to by a newly promoted something, maybe a WO or Sgt trying out his new role, for not saluting another Capt, which was really confusing because it isn’t a thing. Apparently he told on me and this fake problem just wouldn’t go away, weeks later a different person would approach me to discuss this erroneous encounter . He eventually admitted it’s not a thing but the aftermath was somewhat annoying, and I didn’t even do anything.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As a young Capt I got a stern talking to by a newly promoted something, maybe a WO or Sgt trying out his new role, for not saluting another Capt, which was really confusing because it isn’t a thing. Apparently he told on me and this fake problem just wouldn’t go away, weeks later a different person would approach me to discuss this erroneous encounter . He eventually admitted it’s not a thing but the aftermath was somewhat annoying, and I didn’t even do anything.

Just wondering.... did he salute you before and after he 'advised' you?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Or just progress CWOs in pay into the Captain bands and have them remain more effective as a professional, non-compromised, SNCO that can provide the essential, objective, experienced checks and balances to the actions of an overly career focused commander.

When we relegate our most Senior SNCOs to the role of 'advisor' or bag holder for an Officer, or merely part of a fictitious and cult of personality focused 'Command Team', we deserve what we get.

CWOs are Warrant Officers not NCOs. There’s a difference.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Wait... You've witnessed people bringing personal firearms and a military run range qualification or practice

Right!?!?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the "I'm wearing jeans anyways" crowd out of RMC but as an NCO I've been pretty shocked at how some new LTs in a unit will blatantly ignore orders from OCs or even stuff coming down from the CO.

Said LTs will often explode when they feel a troop has, or appeared to, not treat their own directions like it's Holy Writ.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Which is exactly why I think the entire concept of Command Team is flawed and a lot of Chief's outside of the unit level i.e. Coxn/RSM aren't much in the way of value added.

When you get to what is Chief 1, you should be promoted to the rank of Lt(N)/Capt and carry on.

I think it’s important to remember things like “as a WCWO I don’t outrank a CO”.

They are advisors to superiors and mentors to subs but…they still fit in that “CWO/NCM” part of our rank structure.

Our Wing Dress Instrs are signed by the WComd, not WCWO…

 

[Halifax Tar]

Which is exactly why I think the entire concept of Command Team is flawed and a lot of Chief's outside of the unit level i.e. Coxn/RSM aren't much in the way of value added.

When you get to what is Chief 1, you should be promoted to the rank of Lt(N)/Capt and carry on.

I maintain we have room for a small number of CPO1/CWO technical experts and trade advisors but they should be few and far between.

But in general a CPO1/CWO should not be holding the rank if they are not part of a command team.

I like the idea of the Conductor as employed by the RLC of the British Army.

Conductor (military appointment) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Jarnhamar]

Wait... You've witnessed people bringing personal firearms and a military run range qualification or practice ?

I'm sure they had a waiver.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

As a young Capt I got a stern talking to by a newly promoted something, maybe a WO or Sgt trying out his new role, for not saluting another Capt, which was really confusing because it isn’t a thing. Apparently he told on me and this fake problem just wouldn’t go away, weeks later a different person would approach me to discuss this erroneous encounter . He eventually admitted it’s not a thing but the aftermath was somewhat annoying, and I didn’t even do anything.

I hope that Sgt got ripped a new one, for so many valid and obvious reasons.