New Dress Regs 🤣

[Kilted]

I brought that up in a town hall recently. Every base and unit have always a slightly different standard despite the dress regs being pretty black and white (more so 20 years ago). The toques and gloves thing is a prime example, it hasn't been in the dress regs for well over a decade yet every year someone decides to make a thing of it. I also know people who have been required to wear a uniform walking in their whole career while I have almost never been required.

Now the only standard is to QUOTE look professional UNQUOTE and it sure as hell won't be Cpl Bloggins who gets to decide what is professional. When I brought it up the answer was along the lines of we all know what professional looks like but this thread, the ones on Reddit and discussions I have had at work tell me there is a huge difference in what people think is professional. The dress manual was like the drill manual, it was a simple set of instructions to ensure everyone did things the same. When I joined I could read exactly how to get my hair cut, roll my sleeves, blouse my boots and wear to mount my rank insignia. If I followed the book, I was good. Over the years it got less and less specific, and people started to let things slide. Instead of having your sleeves rolled 4 fingers wide above the elbow, you started to see leadership with sleeves clumsily rolled to their elbows with dirty boots. Now, if I stood 10 random people in a line at work some of them would be wearing non issues Tshirts from other squadrons, some of them would have the leather worn off the toe of their boots and some would be wearing the ECU with some wearing old style combats. I can guarantee that I will see someone after the new regs come into effect that looks like a hobo. Long unkempt hair (as opposed to the short unkempt hair you see now) possibly with odd colours, scraggly beard, face tattoos, old combats and beat up boots. Maybe it will be less that 1-2 percent of the Forces that do that but that is all it will take to make us look like a joke.

The internet has really helped stop some units from trying to interpret the dress regs their own way, CANFORGENS and regulations actually get down to the lowest level now. I was very happy when we stopped rolling up our sleeves with the new uniform, although there are a few people who are still somehow getting away with doing it (I have only seen officers do it). As for the old uniforms. you can't really blame people for still having them when clothing stores won't exchange them. I've seen BMQs recently with almost half the troops in old uniforms. I only have one of the new uniforms myself.

 

[Jarnhamar]

And what will be the effect on their work?

Why do we care that someone looks like this?

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Or this?

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That's a trick question because if someone does care and has a negative opinion then they're basically Hitler.

I mean, it wouldn't hurt anyone to let soldiers put clown make up on, rainbow wig, big red nose, and a water gun flower.

Soldiers should also be allowed to wear their uniform backwards and inside out.

 

[SupersonicMax]

That's a trick question because if someone does care and has a negative opinion then they're basically Hitler.

I mean, it wouldn't hurt anyone to let soldiers put clown make up on, rainbow wig, big red nose, and a water gun flower.

Soldiers should also be allowed to wear their uniform backwards and inside out.

My point is that it is possible to look and be professional within the bounds of the new dress regulations.

 

[Jarnhamar]

That doesn't look professional just because a CAF advisory board says it does all of a sudden.

It's not the standard for what passes as a professional in our society if you're talking corporate or business. Musician or tattoo artist? Sure.

I know it's 2022 and we're pushing that looks don't matter, but they still do in many many areas.

You can be professional even though you're dressed like a clown but I'd argue not many will consider you look professional. Because you look like a clown.

Since looks don't matter should we be able to wear our uniforms and look like penny wise, Ronald McDonald, or Krusty the clown?

 

[lenaitch]

My point is that it is possible to look and be professional within the bounds of the new dress regulations.

And it may happen, but is it stated as a requirement? I don't know the wording of the new regs (or the old ones for that matter), but if it just a listing of what members can do, 'looking' professional remains subjective and may or may not have a direct relationship with 'being' professional.

I await a Bay St. lawyer appearing before the SCOC in bib coveralls.

 

[OldSolduer]

I would love to adopt Jack Sparrow’s pirate uniform

 

[Furniture]

That doesn't look professional just because a CAF advisory board says it does all of a sudden.

It's not the standard for what passes as a professional in our society if you're talking corporate or business. Musician or tattoo artist? Sure.

I know it's 2022 and we're pushing that looks don't matter, but they still do in many many areas.

You can be professional even though you're dressed like a clown but I'd argue not many will consider you look professional. Because you look like a clown.

Since looks don't matter should we be able to wear our uniforms and look like penny wise, Ronald MacDonald, or Krusty the clown?

While I think this argument is extreme, the other side has been extreme as well.

I think somewhere between 1950, and a clown show, we can find a reasonable middle.

@Jarnhamar is 100% correct in pointing out that there is an expectation in society for military/professional people to look a certain way. I think if people act smart, and don't push the lines too far, the public will generally not care about what we do with hair, beards, or nail polish.

There will of course be people who push the new lines though, just as people push the current lines... John Q Public doesn't know we can't have goatees now, so goatees won't shock too much. A pink goatee, with orange nails, while wearing a skirt to work...that will raise eyebrows.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Basically try not to look like a walking TikTok influencer.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

You cannot legislate the human condition. We can have all the rules, some rules, none of the rules; people are still going to be influenced by their day to day experiences and relationships.

Where we have concrete rules and regulations, it tightens the snare of what is considered acceptable/unacceptable. It's well defined and backed by consequences for non-compliance. Compliance is non negotionable in following the law and ethical standards of our organization.

The changes to the dress regs are widening the Arcs for sure, but just because troops are allowed to relax dress a bit, doesn't mean everyone is going to go ape over this. It's still personal choice, so long as it's within the approved Arcs; to quote Geddy Lee "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." That choice not to have blue hair, a skirt, or a pony tail to your shoulder blades is influenced by many different things other than CFDI:

-Mrs. Bloggins will still have to have her spouse look like a normal member of society around her peer group

- Pte Bloggins is still headed home to Anywhere, Canada for Chirstmas and summer leave. Mom may have some words for your new gauged ears.

- Ms Right Now at the bar may not find your look desirable and more than a No. 2 on the sides and back did in days of yore

- Mr. Civi Employer whom you have been chatting about a new position with isn't keen on hiring someone with a new face tattoo or gauged ear lobes.


For those who want to do it, go for it. You're allowed. The changes in regs permit it and it definitely is the right call.


That said, you're swimming up stream from the rest of Canadian society for the most part. If that's your choice, give'r, but know that you have the freedom to do on account if the CAF.

 

[Pieman]

And what will be the effect on their work?

Why do we care that someone looks like this?

View attachment 72131

Or this?

View attachment 72132

I care because I'm worried that the first one wants to cast a spell on me and that the second one wants to cast a different kind of spell on me.

 

[markppcli]

That doesn't look professional just because a CAF advisory board says it does all of a sudden.

It's not the standard for what passes as a professional in our society if you're talking corporate or business. Musician or tattoo artist? Sure.

I know it's 2022 and we're pushing that looks don't matter, but they still do in many many areas.

You can be professional even though you're dressed like a clown but I'd argue not many will consider you look professional. Because you look like a clown.

Since looks don't matter should we be able to wear our uniforms and look like penny wise, Ronald McDonald, or Krusty the clown?

I know this may stun you; but I have more than a few friends that are educated, buisness professionals with hair in exactly that shade, or beards, some with both, some have facial piercings. They go into offices and do their jobs to a high standard, dressed in business attire. Society does not care about this stuff anymore.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I know this may stun you; but I have more than a few friends that are educated, buisness professionals with hair in exactly that shade, or beards, some with both, some have facial piercings. They go into offices and do their jobs to a high standard, dressed in business attire. Society does not care about this stuff anymore.

Oh they do care, go downtown and you see the "Business suit clones" and people get sidelined all the time. Hell our Japanese student just got lectured by the principal of the international school she goes to for dying her hair a dark brown. Apparently dying your hair even natural colours is a big no no in Japanese culture. The alternate culture groups are also judgemental, in that you need to look edgy to be accepted.

 

[markppcli]

Oh they do care, go downtown and you see the "Business suit clones" and people get sidelined all the time. Hell our Japanese student just got lectured by the principal of the international school she goes to for dying her hair a dark brown. Apparently dying your hair even natural colours is a big no no in Japanese culture. The alternate culture groups are also judgemental, in that you need to look edgy to be accepted.

We aren’t Japan. People with dyed hair, tattoos, and piercings work as doctors, business professionals, EMTs, and everything in between. I don’t really know what you mean by “alternative groups,” but I’m assuming this is your second hand opinion.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I know this may stun you; but I have more than a few friends that are educated, buisness professionals with hair in exactly that shade, or beards, some with both, some have facial piercings. They go into offices and do their jobs to a high standard, dressed in business attire. Society does not care about this stuff anymore.

Naw I've seen the commercial with the heavily tattooed biker gang looking dude who surprise is a surgeon. I get it. Society is becoming more open minded for sure, I just wouldn't say it's reached the spot where no one cares. Especially in the military. I'll change my views when I start seeing rainbow haired generals with face tats and ear plugs briefing people at NATO summits. Lead by example right?

Our of curiosity what businesses are your friends in where pink hair and facial piercings are welcomed?

My close friend is a veterinary technician and has bright pink hair and a nose ring and no one cares.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I can guarantee that I will see someone after the new regs come into effect that looks like a hobo. Long unkempt hair (as opposed to the short unkempt hair you see now) possibly with odd colours, scraggly beard, face tattoos, old combats and beat up boots.

Aren't they called S.O.F.?

You can be professional even though you're dressed like a clown ...

James Bond disarmed a nuclear bomb dressed as a clown once (Octopussy).

My close friend is a veterinary technician and has bright pink hair and a nose ring and no one cares.

I fail to see why the animals would care what their technician looks like.

 

[Remius]

Naw I've seen the commercial with the heavily tattooed biker gang looking dude who surprise is a surgeon. I get it. Society is becoming more open minded for sure, I just wouldn't say it's reached the spot where no one cares. Especially in the military. I'll change my views when I start seeing rainbow haired generals with face tats and ear plugs briefing people at NATO summits. Lead by example right?

Our of curiosity what businesses are your friends in where pink hair and facial piercings are welcomed?

My close friend is a veterinary technician and has bright pink hair and a nose ring and no one cares.

My best Friend’s wife has pink hair, sometimes blue, working for a government security agency. No one seems to care.

My current HR advisor has bright red hair. Again, no one seems to care. And she’s one of the best HR advisors I’ve had.

 

[markppcli]

Naw I've seen the commercial with the heavily tattooed biker gang looking dude who surprise is a surgeon. I get it. Society is becoming more open minded for sure, I just wouldn't say it's reached the spot where no one cares. Especially in the military. I'll change my views when I start seeing rainbow haired generals with face tats and ear plugs briefing people at NATO summits. Lead by example right?

I don’t see what the point your trying to make here is? Our dress regs are designed to make us look like professional, well put together people from 1950, 70 years later we’re adjusting that to make us look like professional well put together people from 2020. Are people going to take advantage initially? Probably but that’s why we have NCOs to enforce standards; the standard is now just a bit more nuanced.

Our of curiosity what businesses are your friends in where pink hair and facial piercings are welcomed?

My close friend is a veterinary technician and has bright pink hair and a nose ring and no one cares.

One is in marketing and advertisement, another works as a mechanical engineer for Finning, a couple are EMTs. Hell my sister had half her head shaved with a purple streak in it and is a committee clerk for a provincial legislature.

 

[Jarnhamar]

My best Friend’s wife has pink hair, sometimes blue, working for a government security agency. No one seems to care.

My current HR advisor has bright red hair. Again, no one seems to care. And she’s one of the best HR advisors I’ve had.

Good examples. Do you think the agency your friends wife works with would be okay with her having her face full of tattos?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I don’t see what the point your trying to make here is? Our dress regs are designed to make us look like professional, well put together people from 1950, 70 years later we’re adjusting that to make us look like professional well put together people from 2020. Are people going to take advantage initially? Probably but that’s why we have NCOs to enforce standards; the standard is now just a bit more nuanced.

I agree with you people will take advantage of it and push the limits. I'm probably going to think some people look pretty goofy if they push the limits of what's allowed but whatever. I look just as goofy to others I'm sure.

Maybe dyed hair and face tattos are more prevelent than I realize. Doesn't really matter, I just don't think it's as common and accepted as the military is all of a sudden telling everyone is. I'm still a little suspect about the CAFs motives.

On a side note enforcing standards isn't solely an NCO thing anymore than enforcing discipline is an NCO thing.

One is in marketing and advertisement, another works as a mechanical engineer for Finning, a couple are EMTs. Hell my sister had half her head shaved with a purple streak in it and is a committee clerk for a provincial legislature.

Again good examples.

 

[AmmoTech90]

James Bond disarmed a nuclear bomb dressed as a clown once (Octopussy).

EOD has entered the chat.